grinding picks.

[boatmaster]

hi chaps,

well we were going to order our picks a few days ago but it turned out that it cam to 12 sets of 22 picks, that came to around £700 ($1400)
so we rethought it and have decided to have our own made in the enginering dept on our barracks.

i have downloaded all the collection of templates post by mjwhit and the other members.

very good, selection of picks i think.

we have scrounged a whole load of carbon hacksaw blades from the engineers.

i saw a great video on youtube that was 24 minuits long that showed how to grind picks and create tension wrenches.

so we have saved ourselves some money to spend down the naffi and choggers.

we still might get a set delivered to see some commercial ones up close but like the idea of being independant.

i say independant, apart from this site that is.

is there any advice you could mention about when grinding these pick our lads should know?

the qm has calmed down and there is a feeling of trust returning around here again.

cheers and thanks.

[boatmaster]

just to let you know, that we know about the quenching in water every few seconds to keep the temper of the metal.

that video was very good.

but maybe there are other things that the vodeo did'nt cover.

cheers.

[boatmaster]

ok as not to waste anyones time, this is what we know.

must use goggles.
possable use ear plugs and face mask.
sanding with sandpaper, various grades.
lubrication and wire wool.
tempering with motor oil.

still reading up on the old posts.
just did'nt want to ask old questions.

still if you want to add somthing then you are welcome.

cheers.

[raimundo]

tempering

skip the tempering, without a metalurgist furnace, its gonna have uneven results from one pick to another and probably along the length of a single pick.

If the metal you are using to make the picks from is already well tempered for the jop, just cut and sand and leave the temper as you found it.

if the metal bends and does not spring back, tempering will not change a mild steel alloy into carbon steel. so don't put any work into a soft piece of steel.

after you are good at making picks, you may wish to experiment with tempering, its not necessary, but I guess we all try it sometime. Just don't make it a routine part of the process since its more likely to cause the product to be crap.

hardening is heating and quickly quenching, this sets the metal crystallization quickly from very excited molecules to frozen ones.
This causes brittleness, and hardness

Tempering is often the process of drawing out the brittleness and leaving some hardness, its done by putting the hardened metal in a furnace and heating to a lower temperature for a longer period of time then letting it cool slowly.

When you play a gas flame on a piece of metal, the heat goes up at the point of the flame tip, then it spreads as the metal heat sinks it away from that point. heat will sink toward all points, but it will build up to a hotter spot in the thin and small areas, while the mass areas heat slower.
This means that the shaft of a pick will send heat equally to the handle that will heat sink, and to the pick tip that will overheat and cause brittleness or uneven temper along the shaft.
To get it right, the flame should be brushed along the parts of the pick closest to the mass and allowed to travel to the other parts of the shaft
it it never necessary to put the flame on the picktip.

[femurat]

Using a wet-grinder could help you not heating the pick... this way you are sure the temper is not ruined.
sorry if I always underline this, I swear I'm not a wet-grinder seller

[boatmaster]

cheers raimundo and femurat,

i think there is a wet grindtone somwhere in the engineers batcave somwhere.
i will have to find out where it is but they aint that happy having our lads turning up like a bunch of cripples cluttering up their workshop with crutches, wheelchair, etc.

they havnt complained about anything yet but the look on there faces says a lot.

what they suggested was that they just lend us a grinder, table and an electricity extension lead and put us at the edge of the yard and leave us to it.

we was'nt realy going to temper our picks, just going to heat our tension tools up with a butane torch to put a right angled turn and twist on them and cool them down with water.
if is is too britle for use then we will wait for the metal to cool down just after orange before dunking into the quench liquid.

thanks for the advice,

i am going to keep seaching the older posts to find out more.

cheers a lot.

2 6

[datagram]

boatmaster,

If you're going to be heating things up I'd recommend using vegetable oil to quench your tools. Your tools will be less brittle (the oil cools slower than water) and will usually provide you will excellent baked cookie smells.

Alternatively, you don't even need a grinder to work with picks. Everything can be made with hand files pretty easily, especially if you are starting with street sweeper bristles, as they have all the excess material already removed.

You can also use a cold chisel with the files if you have sheets of metal rather than thin strips. Once you get used to the chisel it is very fast and you don't have to worry about heat or bending of the steel.

dg

[cppdungeon]

You might want to thin the pick a bit with the grinder. Unfortunately then you have to sand a lot to make it shiny.
As for making tensioners (i think you mentioned that up there) i suggest you use street sweeper bristles, as hacksaw is kinda flimsy, and not a good shape for a tensioner to begin with.

also if your going to sell them...dont use used hacksaw blades. From what i have heard, using materials that have ben stressed is a good way to get broken picks.

[boatmaster]

thanks datagram and cppdungeon,

we are using new hacksaw carbon steel blades for the picks and junior hacksaw blades springsteel for the tension wrenches.

we dont have any streetsweeper blades to hand at the moment, although we might be able to take a few car windscreen wipers from some of the cars on the training range around here.

i thought that a junior hacksaw would make a good tension wrench as it has a bit of flex in it as so to have a more featherlight tension?

i general would you say window wipers are the better tesiojn wrench.

one more thing, is there any tenplates of tension wrenches heads that fit into different locks that we can use?

what is the designated shape of a tension wrench head?

thanks chaps.

[datagram]

Wiper inserts should work well for tension wrenches. In my experience they are better than hacksaws for tension wrenches because they are a bit stronger, same with street sweeper bristles.

You don't need to worry about flex in the tension wrench because you should get used to feather tension from your hand rather than letting the tool compensate.

A standard tension wrench is just a long L shape:
http://www.lockpickshop.com/images/products/tw-01.jpg

You can of course add a twist to it, but it isn't necessary.

dg

[boatmaster]

hi chaps,

well i have ground out for myself three picks today out of hacksaw blades.

i now have a half diamond with the half diamond 3/16 long and 1/8 tall. ( is this a small half diamond.)

a long hook.

and a hook with a half diamond tip 1/8 x 1/8.

all the shafts are 1/8 inch wide.

all three picks were made from 1 standard length hacksaw blade.

also 1 tension wrench was made from a junior hacksaw blade with a 90 degree turn and a twist.

the tension wrench snapped after the first pick so another was made with a longer cooling time before quenching.

i picked a taiwan made type master lock for practise and it took about twenty minuits to pick.

not as easy as it looks on you tube but it was good to open the lock.

single pin picking was a bit of a task but with patient and persaverance it eventully came lose.

cheers.

[TheSnakey]

beg borrow steal wiper blade inserts

make your picks of of those and your tensions wrench wont break either

[cppdungeon]

Don't steal them. Just go get some street sweeper bristles off the ground. They are free AND good. its rare taht something is both.

--Cpp

[boatmaster]

hello chaps,

street sweeper bristles. i dont think we have them in england. we pay blokes to push a cart with a broom and shovel.

we do have mobile wagons that drive around with two big round sweeper head in front and a vacume that sucks the rubbish in.

is that were the sweeper bristols come from, from the round sweeper heads?
i have'nt realy looked, i just thought they were a kind of nylon/plastic fibre.

anyone else had luck in finding sweeper bristles in england?

you are right though, those junior hacksaw blades are crap. thats two i broke now.

cheers.
2 6

[cppdungeon]

Oh, bummer. The machine you described is right with the big vacuum and the spinning heads of bristles. Sounds like you guys have made the switch to nylon though. Your best source would then be here, or ebay, or something. I have some i could send you if you just need a few, or want to know what they look like. Just let me know.

--Cpp