Hi to all and just need a little bit of advice

[brassic]

hi, this will be my first post as I'm one for reading more than asking too many questions without first educating myself.

I started messing with locks because a mate of mine asked me to get him some info on it and I really caught the bug myself. Since starting out last year, this site has been invaluable for me in teaching me to make my own picks and explaining the locks ins and outs and also I have a video called lock picking for the new millenium by david storm which has also proved invaluable.

Armed with this info, I have successfully learned the basics of lock picking and I am now ready to start moving up a peg or two. One of my problems that I have found is that I can pick my lock in seconds anticlockwise but when I go clockwise it can take me ages. I am relating to a pin tumbler lock like the ones used on standard pvc doors that will turn both ways although I have got more locks but this is just annoying me why I can do it so easily one way than the other. I have a feeling that its something to do with where the tension bar fits in as in the position of it in the keyway but I'm sure that someone will know what I am refering to so any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

I also managed to get past my high security squire padlock off my motorbike last night which really impressed me but I have another one which seems impossible which I also need advice on, CISA 285/85 if anyone knows if this is possible or if I'm trying to run before I can walk.

Thanks for any help guys, Andy

[kdlocks]

Some times with pin tumbler locks the flaws or tolerances are better exploited turning the plug one way or the other. I think it is just the way they are made or maybe just from wear. But it is really no big deal I say try one way and if it doesn't go try the other way. If you picked it the wrong way (ie not the direction the lock opens) use a plug spinner to flip it past the shear line. Before I had a plug spinner I used my tension wrench and a rubber band.

[femurat]

Hi brassic,
I have the same problem with some of my locks: picking clockwise is much more difficult than the other direction. I agree with you, this depends on which side of the keyhole you find the best grip for the wrench. The better position of the wrench in the keyhole makes easier to pick the lock.

I have no new answer for this, except the plug-spinner trick already mentioned. I just wanted to say you are not doing it wrong.

Cheers

[Legion303]

Also bear in mind that the binding order will be reversed when you turn the plug opposite the direction you're used to picking it in.

-steve

[Engineer]

Hi Brassic,

These are all excelent replies. In short, it is perfectly normal to find locks that will pick more easily in one rotation than the other. It is all to do with the manufacturing process the maker has used. The hole for the pins are all drilled at once and it is the small mis-alignment of these drills that gives us the edge in picking.

You should congratulate yourself for finding out for yourself that locks pick much more easily in one direction than another. A lot of pickers never even get that far, as they never even think of trying in the opposite rotation. You might have seen plug spinners for sale, these are so you can pick the lock in whichever direction is easiest, but if it will not actually open in that direction, you insert the blade of the spinner and a spring VERY quickly flips the cylinder from one side to the other. The idea being that it is so quick, that the pins do not have time to come back down into the holes in the cylinder and lock it again.

Part of becomming a master picker, is to know which locks pick easier anti-clockwise than clockwise. I imagine we have all spent ages trying to pick a lock in one direction, only to realise afterwards that it picks better in the other direction - duh!

The easiest direction of picking is usually the same for any lock of the same model and manufacturer. In theory it can change between batches, or when the machine has to be serviced or re-jigged. In practidse it never seems to change though, so once you have picked make and model, you can be reasonalby certain that all the other locks of that make & model will pick the same.

[brassic]

thanks for the replies. I think I have worked out part of the problem, it seems that the lock picks easier depending on the angle of the tension wrench, ie when picked anticlock, the wrench sits nicely in the lock at about quarter past and when picking clockwise the wrench likes to slip down to 20 to but picks a lot easier when I get the wrench to sit in at quarter to, if that makes sense. But it still picks alot easier anticlockwise. What Im also asking is whether the angle of the wrench is better at cetain angle than others and just trying to understand the workings of what i am doing. Thanks again for your time and info.

[Olson Burry]

What can happen, and I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here, is that the tension wrench actually jams against the shell through the bottom of the keyway, making turning difficult if not impossible. The harder you push the more it digs in.

If you pick the lock then reposition the wrench so youre applying torque the other way and hold the back you can see if the wrench slipping down or around may be causing it to bind at all.

If it's not binding then the angle of the wrench should not matter in theory, however if you are more comfortable in certain positions then that might make it seem easier.

[Engineer]

Hi again brassic,

I'm trying to visualise what you are describing, could it be that the tension wrench is slipping in the keyway? Most keyways being assymetric, the tesion wrench will nearly always have a "natural" position in the keyway. Move it from that position and it is apt to slip around.

Sometimes that natural position in the keyway is in the way of the pick and you need to use a different thickness of tension wrench to clear the keyway more for the pick.

Is that what you meant?

[chev49]

I think he means that the tension wrench is inserted in too far, which can then bind n t keyway. anyway, I have had THAT happen before...

[datagram]

Tension can also be applied to the top of the keyway with a normal wrench, but it is easier to do it with a modified wrench with a smaller tip. You can do this to an existing wrench with a pair of pliers pretty easily.

Tensioning from the top alleviates the headache of digging into the plug and restricting movement, and gives you much more room to work with the pick in the keyway. Be careful, though, of binding the tension wrench against the first pin. If this happens your tension arm is probably a bit too long, file it down a bit.

dg

[mikitric]

One other thing is that if you place your tension wrench in at a less than comfortable angle, you might end up moving the wrench itself while you are picking. Its common to want to use the tension wrench as a fulcrum for your pick... but you end up changing the level of torque you are applying.