Bump Wafer locks?

[wouternet]

Does somebody know if you can bump Wafer locks?
Thanks,
Wouternet

[cppdungeon]

I dont think it would work. First off, the concept is not applicable; there are no pins to separate at the shear line. Second, if it were done, the wafers would pop OUT of the cylinder, making the plug even harder to turn. In addition, I think it would permanently damage the wafers to hit them that hard.

so nope. can't do it.

--Cpp

[datagram]

cpp is correct; Wafers are not bumpable. Since there is no energy transfer between pins you don't get the bumping effect. In fact, trying to bump a wafer lock will probably just smash the wafers and break the lock.

dg

[barbarian]

I saw a discussion somewhere and the guy was saying he bumped wafer locks all the time. He had some videos too.

I'll check and see if I can find them.

[MacGyver101]

I saw a discussion somewhere and the guy was saying he bumped wafer locks all the time. He had some videos too.

He's either pulling your leg, or isn't using a proper definition of "wafer locks". Bumping works because the impact creates a gap between the pins at the shear line... and wafer locks simply don't work that way.

Now, having said that... it's possible that, with a cheap enough lock, you might be able to use something that looks like a bumpkey to provide tension while the "bumping" action vibrates the wafers into place. If that's the case, though, you'd be just as far ahead scrubbing the wafers with a proper pick, and far less likely to bend the wafers.

[barbarian]

I'm thinking it's the second one.

Try you tube under "bumping wafer locks".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEbeBymrLrA

[lunchb0x]

I saw a discussion somewhere and the guy was saying he bumped wafer locks all the time. He had some videos too.

I'll check and see if I can find them.

Is this the discusion you are talking about?

http://www.lockpickology.com/forum/view ... 1993#p1993

I tried to tell the guy that you cant bump wafer locks but I ended up giving up

[jpb06080]

I think this would actually be a good way of retrofitting existing pin pin tumbler locks to increase bump resistance. I think that with slight modification, any pin stack could be retrofitted to accept either a pin or a wafer. By switching even just 1 pin stack for a wafer in a 5 pin lock, you'd greatly decrease bump resistance.

[cppdungeon]

good point....the only problem would be the smashed up wafers. maybe a super thick wafer? You should bring this up in TOSL

--Cpp

[Scott_93]

Not bumping, but a sort of overlifting technique. Used to be called "razzling" by car thieves overhere.

Scott.

[wouternet]

Ok, thanks, but i recently got a broken (i think its wafers are stuck) and i want to dismantle it to clean it out. and also, i can see the wafers from the top, so there is no house (outer casing, so i only have got the plug) so where can i get these to make the lock work, because these lock was from a old locker, and i want to practice with my stuck one. to open the lockers lock for stundents if they forgotten their keys.

[Engineer]

This question bothers me, because I think a kind of bumping might be possible.

First visualise how a wafer lock works. The springs keep the wafers projected out into the body of the lock. Inserting the key pulls the wafers into the cylinder so it can rotate in the body. Pulling the wafers in too far, makes them stick out the other side of the cylinder into the body, again locking the cylinder.

A bump key being cut to the deepest depth, would pull the wafers in just a little, but not enough. Hitting the bump key would make them jump into the cylinder - A similar idea and effect to bumping, but working by a different method.

My main concern is the bump might cause the wafers to jump too far into the cylinder and protrude out the other side, locking the cylinder.

So I think I can see how it might work, but don't know if it would actually work in practise. Interesting idea though. I should try it out for myself one day when I get the chance to cut a bump key for one.

[What]

...to open the lockers lock for stundents if they forgotten their keys.

That is a *very* bad idea.

[datagram]

This question bothers me, because I think a kind of bumping might be possible.

First visualise how a wafer lock works. The springs keep the wafers projected out into the body of the lock. Inserting the key pulls the wafers into the cylinder so it can rotate in the body. Pulling the wafers in too far, makes them stick out the other side of the cylinder into the body, again locking the cylinder.

A bump key being cut to the deepest depth, would pull the wafers in just a little, but not enough. Hitting the bump key would make them jump into the cylinder - A similar idea and effect to bumping, but working by a different method.

My main concern is the bump might cause the wafers to jump too far into the cylinder and protrude out the other side, locking the cylinder.

So I think I can see how it might work, but don't know if it would actually work in practise. Interesting idea though. I should try it out for myself one day when I get the chance to cut a bump key for one.

But fundamentally it is impossible to "bump" a wafer lock. The whole idea is the energy transfer between the key and pins, and having no pins a wafer cannot be bumped. What you're basically doing is making a key based rake, not a bump key. In any event, 99% of wafers are terribly easy to pick anyways

dg

[Engineer]

You are absolutely right about it being impossible to truly bump a wafer lock. Bumping is giving kinetic energy to the top pins and wafer locks not having top pins, cannot then be bumped.

What I was talking about is how could someone make a "bump" key for a wafer lock and appear to bump it, even though we know it cannot truly be bumped.

In a wafer lock, the bump key would give the kinetic energy to the wafer thenselves, to pull them into the cylinder (and possibly too far in). This is how I think someone might think they are bumping a wafer lock? HOWEVER - You have got it EXACTLY RIGHT. It is NOT really bumping, technically it is a form of raking, just as you said. Instead of raking in the normal manner, you are using a bump hammer to rake. (percussive raking???).

So, (trying not to sound like Mythbusters here...), I think we can lay this one to rest. Anyone who claims to be able to "bump" a wafer lock, probably thinks they can, because it looks and feels like bumping, but because of the way the lock works, they are really doing something more like raking than bumping.

This was an intersting question!