Sideway Key way

[vryez2xlr8]

I was up at the fire department the other night and it was one of those slow nights. Since we weren't running calls and nothing was on TV I decided to tinker around with some locks. I grabbed my set out of my truck and went to work opening locks around the station. The key-way of the lock to our day room (never locked) sits sideways. For whatever reason it was, I found this awkward to pick. My question is am I the only loser on here or are there others that find picking locks that sit sideways or ever upside down a bit awkward or "not of the norm"? I did eventually opened it but it just took a little bit of a different technique than usual. Just a thought.

[datagram]

It is called a dimple lock. The same as a pin tumbler but with the keyway put horizontally. High end dimple locks have some unique security features, but for the most part they are just traditional pin-tumblers.

Special picks exist for them, but pin tumbler picks such as the half ball can be used to pick them pretty easily, depending on the maker and model.

dg

[cheesehead]

i've seen kwikset lever handled locks with the sideways keyway before. and yes, it does feel a little unnatural to pick, since its a little out of the norm.

[yoyoboy]

It is called a dimple lock. The same as a pin tumbler but with the keyway put horizontally. High end dimple locks have some unique security features, but for the most part they are just traditional pin-tumblers.

Special picks exist for them, but pin tumbler picks such as the half ball can be used to pick them pretty easily, depending on the maker and model.

dg

I'm fairly certain that he is talking about a lever lock in which the plug is at 90degrees from what we normally expect (either vertical up, or vertical down)
It is designed this way because it is the only way the bible of the lock will fit into the lever.
And conversly, if you have a dimple lock with a traditional horizontal keyway, they are vertical in lever sets.
Yes I have had problems picking them, I find it helps to lean my body, so that I can have my hands in a more traditional location with the lock.
Brendan

[Squelchtone]

It is called a dimple lock. The same as a pin tumbler but with the keyway put horizontally. High end dimple locks have some unique security features, but for the most part they are just traditional pin-tumblers.

Special picks exist for them, but pin tumbler picks such as the half ball can be used to pick them pretty easily, depending on the maker and model.

dg

I'm fairly certain that he is talking about a lever lock in which the plug is at 90degrees from what we normally expect (either vertical up, or vertical down)
It is designed this way because it is the only way the bible of the lock will fit into the lever.

datagram: although its true mul-t-lock uses a horizontal mounted keyway, you can also mount rim cylinders 90 degrees rotatated to the right/left in some doors that have a push bar on the other side. It's the only way it will allow the mounting screws to get around the push bar's hardware and rotate the piece properly to retract the spring loaded strike.

yoyoboy: good call on the idea that it may have been a lever set. Btw, its tricky to call it a lever lock on this website, since the boys from the UK as well as those of use who have been exposed to them in the states, refer to lever locks which use levers instead of pin tumblers, and those old looking, what a typical American would call "skeleton keys" A good term to use for a KIK cylinder mounted sideways in a lever, is "lever set". A "handle set" btw, is typically a handle mounted to the door and just above the handle is a little button you press down with your thumb to retract the strike.

The old fashioned New England locks which have 3 levers in them, I believe are called x lever mortise locks, (ex. 3 Lever Mortise Lock, or ERA 5 Lever Mortise Lock with bitted key)

and to the original poster: you work in the field of life safety. Please don't screw up the firehouse locks, I don't want to see that story in the news when the place burns down and guys cant get out of the building because the locks aren't working as they should. use your noggin, buy some practice locks at the local hardware store or warehouse.

Squelchtone

[yoyoboy]

Thanks Squelchtone, I know exactly what you mean. I'll try to be more specif in the future.

[vryez2xlr8]

and to the original poster: you work in the field of life safety. Please don't screw up the firehouse locks, I don't want to see that story in the news when the place burns down and guys cant get out of the building because the locks aren't working as they should. use your noggin, buy some practice locks at the local hardware store or warehouse.

Squelchtone

I knew someone was bound to say something about me using the locks on a door for practice. I do have some practice locks, but I didn't have them with me and like I said in my post, the door the lock was on is never even shut, much less locked. it's separates the main entry door from our day room/living room. we leave it unlocked and wide open because we have a lot of community walk-ups and tours and what not. we have a main entry door which is glass then 4 feet in front of that you have 3 doors the one on the left goes to the captains office the one on your right (the one I picked) goes to our day room and the one straight is a community bathroom. Be aware I would never try to pick or tamper with any of the locks that we actually use like the main ones to the building which are all keypad locks so our volunteers can get into the station. The only other lock we use is in our bunk room so we can lock up our valuables when we are on a call and so fellow firefighters from other departments won't stop by to put ice/rice etc in our beds or steal all of our sheets. But anywho, thanks for the professional criticism. And if the firehouse did burn down for whatever reason we would still look like idiots. kinda ironic really. But there are plenty of other exits besides that one.

[Safety0ff]

and to the original poster: you work in the field of life safety. Please don't screw up the firehouse locks, I don't want to see that story in the news when the place burns down and guys cant get out of the building because the locks aren't working as they should. use your noggin, buy some practice locks at the local hardware store or warehouse.

Finaly someone said it, I had to resist calling the type of lock an "inUse" lock.

Anyways, there's way too many things that can go wrong when picking a lock that's in use.

[vryez2xlr8]

Finaly someone said it, I had to resist calling the type of lock an "inUse" lock.

Anyways, there's way too many things that can go wrong when picking a lock that's in use.

Once again, let me say this. the lock is NOT in use. It serves no point. we do not even have a a key for the lock. it was installed sometime back in the early 90s for whatever reason and it has not been used in years, ever since the original chief left the station some time ago. we do not use the door knob, nor do we use the door. The only reason we still have the door mounted is because the only person in our fire service that can do anything mechanical to our vehicles or remodel our stations is the fire maintenance department and it's not that huge of a deal to fill out the paperwork and get approval for door removal. THE LOCK ISN'T IN SERVICE. Please read before posting another bash about using a 'in service' lock. Thanks.

[raimundo]

Keyway, sideways, horizontal, this could be a pin tumbler with the bible held horizontal in that particular application, such as ADA handles, this is the simple take on the OP's question, just about picking normal pin tumblers in difficult applications,
The other answers, that its a dimple lock, dom or multilock, etc. except for occams razor, these answers go to the head of the class. Each depends on the area you know, and the distribution of dimple locks.

[prag]

squelchtone your knowledge of lever lock is impeccable. Another name for a lever lock is mortice lock.

What is a "KIK cylinder ?" Is it a mortise or lever lock with an Adam Rite type cylinder? Just curious

[Squelchtone]

squelchtone your knowledge of lever lock is impeccable. Another name for a lever lock is mortice lock.

What is a "KIK cylinder ?" Is it a mortise or lever lock with an Adam Rite type cylinder? Just curious

Thanks for the kind words! A KIK cylinder is a "key in knob" cylinder which may just be something we have here in the USA.

Here is a picture of a knob which was removed from a door, and the cylinder being removed from the back of the knob. Notice the slot in the knob, it allows the cylinders bible to have a place to slide in and it keeps the cylinder from spinning freely.





here is a kik cylinder from the front as seen if it were inside a Knob.



cheers,

Squelchtone

[yoyoboy]

squelchtone your knowledge of lever lock is impeccable. Another name for a lever lock is mortice lock.

Tough you have to be careful because not all mortise locks and not all lever locks are mortise locks. There are also rim lever locks, as seen on very old houses in the US and elsewhere. Does anybody know if there are any rim lever locks still in production?
Rim locks refer to the style of locks that are surface mounted.

[mhole]

There a few lever rim locks on sale in the UK, usually for use on farmhouse style doors, where there isn't enough thikckness to fit a mortise lock. They are nearly always low security, 2 or 3 lever.

There are also Wellington/Marston rim cylinders which are similar to 1109s in appearence, but which are operated with a key and 6 levers. The key is like a single bitted safe key, and only works from one side of the door, unlike most which are symetrical and work from both sides. It's the same type of key used on the Wellington 6 lever sashlocks w.thumbturn commonly found on older council properties.