Question? Did I do the right thing?

[butterboy]

I went to replace a lock today ,she gave out a key to a guy she stoped seeing.
I removed the cyliner and replaced only one pin, and cut the original key to fit the "new " lock.
It seemed like easy and fastest way to do it.
What would you have done?

[Engineer]

Well, it certainly was a quick and easy fix. Did you charge her for just the work you did, or for replacing the lock?

Personally I wouldn't have done that, as i would have been worried that if he came back and tried to get in, he will think it is the same lock and feel the key "nearly" turn. I would be concerned he might try turning the key with a lot of force. Since all the other cuts on the key will line up, there will be only one pin resisting the full force of the key being turned and so there is a possibility of the lock being damaged.

[butterboy]

I charged her only for a service call, that I feel was very low.
Thats why I started the price list thread above.

[butterboy]

Whats the minamin pins would you replace?
Or would you do them all.

[Engineer]

For me personally, it would be two pins on a 3 or 4 pin lock, three pins on a 5 or 6 pin lock, and four pins on a 7 pin lock or above. In other words, at least half the pins. that is because in my own personal experience, half the pins being changed is enough to make the lock feel "different" to the original and not just the same lock that feels a bit "stuck".

[Squelchtone]

For me personally, it would be two pins on a 3 or 4 pin lock, three pins on a 5 or 6 pin lock, and four pins on a 7 pin lock or above. In other words, at least half the pins. that is because in my own personal experience, half the pins being changed is enough to make the lock feel "different" to the original and not just the same lock that feels a bit "stuck".

Butterboy and Engineer,

I think the right thing to do is replace ALL of the pins and give the customer a new set of factory cut keys, along with how ever many duplicates they want of those factory keys. How much time are you guys really saving if you already took the time to use a plug follower to remove the plug? I'd dump it, clean the plug and fill it with brand new pins to match the new keys. If the lock is really used and I'm not in much of a hurry, I'll install new spool pins in the lock and new springs. I seriously don't think it would take that much more time to pin all the pins in the lock espcially if the direct bitting code is stamped on the factory keys. Just reach in your huge LAB pin kit and do it.

Always take the time to do a job right.

Squelchtone

[lunchb0x]

For me personally, it would be two pins on a 3 or 4 pin lock, three pins on a 5 or 6 pin lock, and four pins on a 7 pin lock or above. In other words, at least half the pins. that is because in my own personal experience, half the pins being changed is enough to make the lock feel "different" to the original and not just the same lock that feels a bit "stuck".

Butterboy and Engineer,

I think the right thing to do is replace ALL of the pins and give the customer a new set of factory cut keys, along with how ever many duplicates they want of those factory keys. How much time are you guys really saving if you already took the time to use a plug follower to remove the plug? I'd dump it, clean the plug and fill it with brand new pins to match the new keys. If the lock is really used and I'm not in much of a hurry, I'll install new spool pins in the lock and new springs. I seriously don't think it would take that much more time to pin all the pins in the lock espcially if the direct bitting code is stamped on the factory keys. Just reach in your huge LAB pin kit and do it.

Always take the time to do a job right.

I'm with you, I would always change all the pins, and also make sure that the new key has cuts a couple of depths deeper and shallower than the original, the customer is paying you a fair bit of money to do the job so whats a couple of brass pins.

Squelchtone

[lunchb0x]

For me personally, it would be two pins on a 3 or 4 pin lock, three pins on a 5 or 6 pin lock, and four pins on a 7 pin lock or above. In other words, at least half the pins. that is because in my own personal experience, half the pins being changed is enough to make the lock feel "different" to the original and not just the same lock that feels a bit "stuck".

Butterboy and Engineer,

I think the right thing to do is replace ALL of the pins and give the customer a new set of factory cut keys, along with how ever many duplicates they want of those factory keys. How much time are you guys really saving if you already took the time to use a plug follower to remove the plug? I'd dump it, clean the plug and fill it with brand new pins to match the new keys. If the lock is really used and I'm not in much of a hurry, I'll install new spool pins in the lock and new springs. I seriously don't think it would take that much more time to pin all the pins in the lock espcially if the direct bitting code is stamped on the factory keys. Just reach in your huge LAB pin kit and do it.

Always take the time to do a job right.



Squelchtone

I'm with you, I would always change all the pins, and also make sure that the new key has cuts a couple of depths deeper and shallower than the original, the customer is paying you a fair bit of money to do the job so whats a couple of brass pins.

[MacGnG1]

i will give my response as a consumer not a locksmith:

if i got you to come out and change the lock i would expect the whole lock to be changed and i'd want a new set of keys as well.... so i gotta agree with squelchy

[Engineer]

"You guys"??? Hey, don't blame me! - I didn't do this!

Of course you should change all the pins, but if you read his supplimentary post, he asked the direct question about the MINIMUM number of pins you can get away with (presumably under some extreme conditions and not something you would be doing regularly. So I assumed the lock was relatively new with no damage and for whatever reason, changing the lock and all the pins was not an option.

I would say a minimum of at least half the pins. The reason being that even if you fit a replacment lock, there is a chance of some of the depths being the same as on the old key anyway. When I was a child, you would try to find and old key in your collection to fit a lock that had no key and you could feel when a key you tried was getting close to turning it. Hence my mimimum suggestion of at least half the pins to make the old key feel different enough for you to think it was the wrong key and not trying more torque on the key incase it's "jammed" as some people do.


Squelchtone wrote:
Butterboy and Engineer,

I think the right thing to do is replace ALL of the pins and give the customer a new set of factory cut keys, along with how ever many duplicates they want of those factory keys. How much time are you guys really saving if you already took the time to use a plug follower to remove the plug? I'd dump it, clean the plug and fill it with brand new pins to match the new keys. If the lock is really used and I'm not in much of a hurry, I'll install new spool pins in the lock and new springs. I seriously don't think it would take that much more time to pin all the pins in the lock espcially if the direct bitting code is stamped on the factory keys. Just reach in your huge LAB pin kit and do it.

Always take the time to do a job right.

Squelchtone[/quote]

[Engineer]

lunchb0x, I already asked him this and in his defence, he said he didn't charge a lot of money at all - "I charged her only for a service call," is what he said, so he is not ripping her off, just for whatever reason, he didn't want to change all the pins.

lunchb0x wrote:
I'm with you, I would always change all the pins, and also make sure that the new key has cuts a couple of depths deeper and shallower than the original, the customer is paying you a fair bit of money to do the job so whats a couple of brass pins.[/quote]

[lunchb0x]

If you are only going to change a couple of the pins at least swap the order of the pins around, and if a call a locksmith out to change my locks and he only charges a callout fee I still expect the lock to be changed, and if you only change 1 pin by the time you recut the new key you could of got some precut keys and keyed the whole lock to the new key in the same time.

[butterboy]

Thanks for the feedback, I guess I could have very easily changed all or more of the pins.
It was just a peace of mind thing for her.
It was very funny actualy she was all on top of me asking did I want some tea and what kind, I was like suprize me, she actualy made lunch for me belive it or not scallops and they looked great but im not into seafood I took one bite and washed it down with hot tea, it was funny.
Like I said I could have easily done more but she was just chewing my ear going on and on and I realy just wanted to get out of there.
It was quite funny.Thanks for the relpies.
Im sure stuf like thats happened to you guys.

[prag]

Depending on what lock it is. If its a, eg Kwikset knob set and it's really new, then a complete pin change could be done.

If it has a cylinder which is commonly used in SA, I would just replace the cylinder.

It would be a safer and quicker solution to just replace the lock. Like engineer stated imagine if the boyfriend came back and sees the same lock and his key does work. In frustration, he'll break the key and cause more damage.

My fee would be a call out + cylinder for the latter job.

[Safecrackin Sammy]

You probably should have changed more pins than you did or replaced the lock entirely.

Making her "feel good" was not the job you were contracted for.
Part of being a locksmith is being ethical and giving people the security that they know nothing about and are paying you for your skills. Not charging her alot does not alleviate you from that duty.

What if the ex is an axe wielding psycho and comes back and jiggles the key and it works and your customer ends up on the news?

I dont mean to raz on you, just point out the potentials from either halfway doing the job or doing a job your not skilled or equipped for.

As far as your original question, my general rule of thumbs as a minimum is to change two tumblers by at least two depths to effect a change. Normally all of the tumblers are replaced in a rekey.

And I would also normally try the old key with alot of jiggling to make sure it doesnt work.

You can always just reverse the order of the pins in the lock and then reverse cut the old key onto a new blank which changes all the pins.