High Security Practice Locks

[keith82687]

Hey! I have found many many places to buy practice locks (which I'm going to do), however, I can't find anywhere with cut-away or clear high security practice locks. I really want to find a clear/cutaway lock with spools and mushrooms and all matter of "fun" pins. Anyone point the way? Thanks again, you people are so helpful.

[gr00ve]

everyone on this site is going to tell you that cut-aways and clear locks are not good practice locks for many reasons such as they dont really help you, they arent as good as real locks, they are imitation locks, learning to lock pick is all about feel, not sight. i was thinking about getting one as well when i started but i was told not too.

[lunchb0x]

now and then some good cut aways come up on ebay of high security cut aways but I don't think they last too long, if you are after them to practice picking with you would be better getting a normal HS lock and start with taking some of the pins out till you get the feel for it, then start adding the pins till you can pick it will all the pins, then change the pin order around so you don't get used to the bitting.

[keith82687]

Thanks guys!

[jpb06080]

I would disagree whole heartedly with grooves assertion that practice locks don't help you. Cutaways are excellent training tools in my opinion. Seeing what is going on inside a cylinder every step of the way allows you to visualize the lock you are picking in a whole new way. For beginners especially, I think cutaways are an invaluable tool. There are many available cutaways with spool pins. I found this one right away, although there are many others if you don't like clear plastic as much as fully cut cylinders.

http://www.lockpicks.com/clearpracticel ... lpins.aspx

[datagram]

I agree with ipb, cutaways are great learning tools but they do have the downside of having unrealistically low tolerances, at times. Depending on who makes them they can be very realistic or painfully easy to pick. I have several very realistic dumple cutaways that are incredibly hard to pick. Generally, I think the plastic cover versions are much more prone to poor tolerances than carefully made cutaways of the actual cylinder. This has just been my experience, but from what I have seen the plastic cover is only used when the maker of the cutaway doesn't want to worry about preserving the pin chambers or other similar mechanisms.

[talbuz]

I started lockpicking without any cutaway practice locks, like most people learning the basics on real locks and padlocks, although not high security ones. Not too long ago I bought a cutaway practice lock from ebay and after using it for a while I can see both sides of this argument: the people who say they are too easy are probably right, this one felt easier and had less resistance than real locks. On the other hand, I did find it useful, it helped me to see those pins moving up during picking or raking.

I too was considering buying a cutaway high security. I imagine that visually seeing the spools sticking and the result of different amounts of torque can be helpful in learning the skill of picking such locks. The one that caught my attention is the Ezee Cutaway lock sold here http://www.lockpickshop.com/EZPLX.html It can be rekeyed, so you wont just get used to the same pin combination, and best of all, spool drivers are included in the kit.

[Engineer]

I think what gr00ve was geting at, is that the feel of a cutaway or clear practise lock is different to a normal lock, so learning to pick one of them will not necessarily help you, as a real one will feel different to what you have just learned.

I think cutaways or clear practise locks DO have a (small) part to play though. They are especially useful to help you visualise what is happening inside a real lock if you are having trouble and although the feel will be different, with a bit of luck, you will still be able to relate the feeling you do get from them to a normal lock, well enough that you will be able to pick it. Just remember the feeeling will be similar, not identical and you might well benefit from the practise ones. It is a personal thing, after all, a serrated pin in one lock, will feel still feel a little bit different from the same serrated pin in another lock.

It's the law of diminishing returns, a practise lock like that might bring you some benefits, but it should not be at the top of your list of wants to begin with. You youself are going to have to be the best judge of if one will help. When/if you think it will be useful, then go for it. It is quite possible you might not need them, but if you feel they might help you, then it is pointless trying to do without one.

Sorry I cannot give a more exact yes/no answer, but with it being such a highly personal thing, I think the only real judge can only ever be yourself - They are NOT essential, but if you feel they might help, then I don't see the point in trying to do without one...

[raimundo]

What if someone built a practice lock made entirely of the original HS metal parts but with some kind of interface on the top of the bible that could read the pin states accurately and display the information on a computer screen plugged in to the sensors on the top of the bible. This could be made so that the actual lock could be easily swapped out.

The visuals would be animated, but with all the details of the actual lock drawn in, and the screen would show pins at their heights, sidebar states, if the sensors were really good they could show points of binding force. etc.

IN this way, you could have the visual info of a plastic cylinder, but be baseing your info on an actual metal lock, which would respond to picking in the real world way, rather than the plastic see me lock that is made to keep you happy and not coming back for a money return.

Anyone interested in the idea, go for it.

[JK_the_CJer]

I think the best way to practice/learn a high-sec technique is to start removing stuff and working up from the bottom (like the db method). Be sure to not cheat yourself and scramble the bitting up often. Doing this will involve lots of disassembly/assembly and thus may lead to noticing vulnerabilities.

[hydruh]

... noticing vulnerabilities.

Interesting turn of phrase.

At L.I/CMH we are focusing on finding vulnerabilities in security systems as practice to become better security professionals. John, while you are updating your site, you should add a few notes about 'noticing vulnerabilities' for the newbie in all of us. You clearly have a gift for it.

S

[JK_the_CJer]

... noticing vulnerabilities.

Interesting turn of phrase.

At L.I/CMH we are focusing on finding vulnerabilities in security systems as practice to become better security professionals. John, while you are updating your site, you should add a few notes about 'noticing vulnerabilities' for the newbie in all of us. You clearly have a gift for it.

S

Its funny that you mention that, I have recently started a page about this very subject. It's nowhere near finished and is still really general, but we'll see where it goes:

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=43351