Training Course help for lockouts & physical security? HELP?

[DDay]

I have been playing with lockpicking and general knowledge for about 4 years now off and on. I would like to add Lockout services and physical security locksmithing (key master/sub master systems for commercial properties) to my repertoire. My Live Free or Die state has no certification requirements/licenses, and the local locksmith doesn't play well with others .

I am curious about these courses:

http://www.locksmithbiz.com
http://www.lockpickshop.com/LE-LOCK-OPENING-COURSE.html

Does anyone have any experience with there courses? Are they good? Are there better?

I know there are several tools and books out there for lockouts. What tools do you prefer? $ is not a problem. Gotta have the right tools for the job!

Now part 2; physical security locksmithing (key master/sub master systems for commercial properties). I have experience with these systems to a limited extent of maintaining a master key log and ordering new cores to replace/ change access, but not with the re-keying. So I am guessing I just need to learn re-keying?

Any Ideas and recommendations on courses/ training equipment?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[ToolyMcgee]

You would probably get better response posting this in the Locksmith Business Information section since you aren't really asking about manual lockpicks. Here's a link to a thread about course rippoff's http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11433 If you scan through that section I'm sure you'll find some helpful info.

[zeke79]

If your state has no licensing then a good place to start would be becoming an ALOA certified locksmith as a basic course. Then for the specialized classes such as impressioning, auto locks, auto lockout, safe combo manipulation, etc from Lockmasters is a good place to learn. Take the training courses which some are longer than others, some are like Friday, Saturday or Friday, Saturday, and either part or a full day of class on Sunday. Some are much longer but they are all good classes to go to but you must keep in practice when you get done with the course and utilize the materials they give you so you won't need to go back and take a refresher course although if I recall correctly they offer a discount if you go back for a refresher course.

Then there is Foley Belsaw which kind of touches a little bit on a medium amount of information but it would give you another certification to hang on your wall right by your Aloa certification and all of your Lockmasters specialized class certifications.

Personally I would have to recommend that you start with another locksmith and do an apprenticeship for 3 to 5 years and learn that way. It wouldn't be a bad idea to take your Foley Belsaw course first to let him know that you are interested enough to invest several hundred dollars to learn on your own so he will know you are serious about learning. To me, being an apprentice to a GOOD Locksmith is the best way to start learning the trade as it is going to fill in the gaps left between the Aloa certification, the belsaw courses, and the Lockmasters courses. This way you can learn how to install panic bars, door closers, narrow stile locks, installation and operation of mechanical locks such as simplex series of mechanical pushbutton locks etc. You will learn alot more as an apprentice as it is going to fill alot of gaps left in your training if you just jump straight into it after taking a few classes. Pay is going to vary alot from place to place as an apprentice but you need to factor in that you are paying him some for the training he is giving you so expect that to be reflected in your salary. I know you said $$$ was no problem but would it be no problem for a 3 to 5 year apprenticeship with as I said wages that vary widely?

There is alot of ways to becoming a locksmith. Some decide to go the hardest way and jump in both feet first and eat a few jobs and a few pieces of hardware due to inexperience installing say a door closer or panic bar. You could easily ruin the door and your new hardware "learning as you are earning" as I call it. It is not the most professional way to do it. Then on the total other end of the spectrum is starting as an apprentice and learning alot as you go and having someone there with you so you can ask questions and likely never ruin hardware or a door while on the job and that is important as your reputation as a locksmith spreads by word of mouth quickly so being the guy who screwed up a couple thousand dollars in hardware and a door and left a business with a door that does not function until new parts etc arrive.

Sorry for the long winded post. I am sure other locksmiths will chime in later. Myself, I have been an apprentice for going on 5 years now I think, it may be 4 I'd have to really sit down and think about it. But I know now that once I get my cash built back up I'll do all my certs, etc and be ready to open my new business and be confident with the work that I have done in the past 5 years getting me through what I know I'll have to service in my normal service radius that I will get most of my calls from.

[locfoc]

I'll jump in here, as a locksmith that has trained 3 guys in to getting their journeymen license I'll just say that on the job experience it the most valuable information. The ALOA and LSI courses are great for specialized things, and I vouch for them personally but the bottom line is, the more jobs you do with hands on the better. I wait for days where somebody will call me and ask me to install something I have never done before, "learning while earning" as zeke so elegantly put it..
Thing is the industry is still 95% common sense and 5% knowledge, any good experience locksmith will tell you that. Every door is different, every installation is different, every lock installs differently then the one before it. Every key is cut differently, even the motion of duplication... I'm lucky my mentor back in the day could cut lexus laser cut keys with out a key for a guide... Our key cutting vise was broken and instead of sending the customer away he set the original key on the table beside the cutter, clamped down the blank into the machine and started cutting, and it worked. I was very lucky, I learned things there I will never forget, from multi point locking doors to all sorts of europe cylinders, to any type of panic hardware or closures or electric strikes. I guess he's part of the reason why I run my very own locksmith company today. I am the other reason, because I have 95% common sense on site.

Don't forget, even an idiot with 10 certificates can't do half the things the guy's that spend 24 hours on the road can do... be a 24 hour tech, learn the trade. Thank me later.

[5thcorps]

I concur, hands on is the best way to go. Apprenticing puts you in the real world, stuff the books can't teach and don't even touch on. Like when a customer has tried to fix things themselves and have totally messed it up. A book can't explain how to become resourceful and think on your feet for viable solutions.

[globallockytoo]

Repinning and master keying are an integral part of the job. But even those tasks require some knowledge. Knowing how and when to create ghost keys, phantoms, cross keying, maison keying, construction keying etc. is important to understanding and offering the best services to customers.

Too many times, I see and hear of situations where a handyman or carpenter or mechanic tries to service his/her client without employing the services of a locksmith, because they think they can do it themselves, save a quid, and impress the client. More often than not, problems occur that they do not have the knowledge or experience to deal with or understand. Often the client requires to call in a locksmith to fix up the screw up, sometimes at significantly higher costs.

Knowing when and why to install a master system are more important than actually designing one. Then designing one, requires the mental fortitude to know how to write one. Usually significant interaction with the customer is required in advance to accurately determine the access levels in the system before a locksmith will return to the workshop to actually write the system or use computer assisted packages.

It's definitely not rocket science and much of it is common sense, but the little things sometimes can make a huge difference.

Definitely look into training courses. ALOA is one of the better known training classes, but in your area you should go to Bennett Street School in Boston. They are by far the best in that area of the country.

Good Luck.