Morality of "Earn while you learn"?

[Engineer]

I had a tradesman in this week to do some work on the place. We got talking and it turns out he is doing the job a little cheaper, because he still considers himself "learning".

I have no problem with that, after all, I still consider myself to be learing new things all the time anyway - I don't think you ever stop leaning in a lot of professions.

This lead me onto a debate with myself about the morality of "Earn while you learn" and I wondered what others thought about it? At what point is it fair to let someone loose on the public?

There is a good justification that the person might be a little slower and not quite as neat a finished job as someone more experienced, but they are more conscientious. You might also say the customer gets the job done a little more cheaply, but would the customer have picked someone else if they had known? After all, most customers do not know the "going rate" for the job, so wouldn't know they were getting the job a little cheaper.

I wondered what others thought? Please no accusing anyone of unprofessionalism though. Let's keep this purely hypothetical!

How do you feel about on-the-job earn-as-you-learn?

[khelben]

in some cases in the lockie buisness its not so bad, but ive seen alot of the guys in the auto opening side that were givein a set of tools and a book and then sent out on the job with litle more than a "go gettem" . i think there needs to be at least some time put into gaining the knowlege to do the job right but if some customers knew what i do about the people sent to provide services they would not be happy at all.

[Safecrackin Sammy]

As long as the "learner" is working under someone in the trade that can guide/correct then its a good thing. Everybody has to learn somehow.

If its some schmoo on the street with some tools in his trunk and no license then its a different story.

[barbarian]

I think it's pretty much the standard way of learning a complex trade or profession. Look at Doctors and Surgeons. The person learning has some skills, it is up to the supervisor to only give them work they can handle, and to check anything critical when finished.

They are sort of riding on the supervisors good reputation at the start.

[op-sec]

If you ever have the misfortune of being the patient on an ambulance ride, always INSIST on having the highest ranking medic perform any work. (That is if you are not unconscious.) At minimum, it can mean the difference between getting your IV in one attempt vs being made into a human pin-cushion.

Once you reach the ER, if it's a teaching hospital, ask for the ATTENDING vs. turning your health over to someone who just had the letters "M.D." embroidered onto their white butchers coat. They don't call it "practicing medicine" for no reason and you want the person with the MOST practice.

With that said, as has already been pointed out - most complex trades involve a period of "journeymanship" wherein someone who is uninitiated will be performing the work under the supervision of an accomplished practitioner. As long as there is proper supervision, things tend to go well. Without that supervision, the "sink or swim" approach can lead to disastrous results for the customer.

[straightpick]

It all depends on the job being done and the person knowing and ACKNOWLEDGING their limitations. For example, if someone is doing drywalling or painting, I see no problem with this, as long as the person is doing the job in a workmanlike manner. As was mentioned, they will probably be more consciencious about it albeit a bit slower than the more experienced person. They also will not be too corrupted by using "shortcuts". Now if they were going to install gas lines in my place, I don't think I would feel comfortable if they were unsure or were "pretty sure" on how to connect the lines. A bad paint job or drywall job isn't the same as a bad gas line hookup. One is an annoyance but the other is dangerous! You don't "learn" on the customer's dime. You have to know your limitations and the hardest part is knowing when to turn a job down.

I can't tell you how many hardware goof ups I have had to rectify because somebody didn't know when they were in over their head. And most of these were from people who did this for a living! I see this most in the installations of commercial hardware. I swear these guys don't know what a tap is. Install the hardware not with the fasteners provided, but with sheet metal and self drilling screws (the short cut corruption). Sure, they install it quick and a month later it's loose and falling off the door. Like Clint Eastwood said in Dirty Harry "A man's gotta know his limitations!".

[TOWCH]

I've learned a couple of these lessons at other people's expense:

1. If you think you may damage something or make the problem worse in the process of attempting, and don't want to turn down the job because you're eager: tough, it's not your right to gamble with other people's property.

2. If you're working for free, they can't complain if you screw up. You get what you pay for. By accepting payment, you accept liability. Don't charge people unless you're bonded.

3. Don't risk breaking it if you're not willing to buy it.

4. If you can't admit defeat and stop before you break something, don't take the job if you're not 100% confident you are up to it.

5. I'm sure there's more but I'll leave it at that.

Safe's are one areas specifically where there's not many options as far as getting experience. You either get it with a job, or you do free openings and disclaimer and waiver that you make no claim as to extent of damage. Alternative is to "do safes" and just turn down any job that you're not comfortable attempting. IE: you recognize the safe dial. No harm trying manipulation either.

[prag]

I'm newish to the trade but if I get a job and I know I can do it-- Hell, I'm charging them the full price of the job. Whether I'm only starting or doing it for a hundred years the expenses of my locksmithing business still need to be paid. There's the cost of tool, fuel, rent, labour, material-locks and the list can continue.

If I feel I the job is above my league, I'd call a friend and either ask how or if he can do it himself while I watch.

Might be silly thought but aren't we all learning something new everyday