Sourcing Locks

[tuscarora]

Hi everyone, I've only been picking for a month or so now, and I'm enjoying the hobby a lot so far. It's amazing how quickly your tools develop! My first pick was a huge hook and I used a junior hacksaw blade with a bend in it for a tension wrench.. that worked on my one cheap lock, from then on I had to diversify and miniaturise - the right wrench for the right lock makes all the difference, a lot more space to work in. But I digress.

So far I've bought locks from shops and eBay, and found a couple of old cylinders in a store room at work. I've picked all but one so far. Been repinning them and I've got about six security pins to play around with so that adds some flavour but building a collection is half the fun!

To the collectors among you - how did you manage to grow your collection of locks? It seems on eBay there's a lot of the same and most of the sites I've looked at seem to be quite expensive (here's to hoping that the answer isn't "put your hand in your wallet!").

I'm considering talking to a local locksmith, I know some of you on here work in the trade so might be able to help - what general reaction would you expect from a locksmith if someone walked in who was interested in locksport and was looking for old locks or maybe ones with damaged hulls (say still functional but can't be fitted any more)? Are there wee bargains about the place for locks?

Any tips would be much appreciated, by the way I live in the UK (Northern Ireland).

[Engineer]

Hi!

Welcome to LP101 with your first post!

The one I use is here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Tools-BE ... 82&sr=8-10

OR http://tinyurl.com/7d2f56

I have picked the cheapest listing of this wet grinder (Click on buy "new/used") it is listed several times on Amazon, sometimes around twice the price. There are cheaper grinders around and some a lot more expensive, but this one seems OK for the price. Its the one I use anyway.

Growing your lock collection is NEVER going to be cheap or easy. Ebay is cheap, if only it wasn't for the postage.

Go to Pound Shops for cheap imports. They are OK, but nothing special and sometimes very difficult to pick due to poor manufacturing tolerances.

My own personal favourite when I started out was touring the demolition sites, or places where homes/businesses were being refurbished. Your best bet might be to speak to the site manager BUT be very respectful to him! Do not butt in if he's busy, do not pester him and be very polite, basically he's breaking the law letting you onsite (no insurance as you've no business there...). But if you are lucky, he will say you can have any you can get off dorrs on the scrap pile, in the skip, etc. You will have to take them off yourself, but often you get them free. It is usually considered "good form" to take him a 12-pack of beer if you hit the jackpot!

Another place you might get lucky is places that do house clearances. They often have a padlock or two lying around, sometimes keys as well. If you get one who seems friendly, ask them to keep an eye out for you and you will bob in every week so they won't have it on their hands for too long. You really will have to pop in to see them every week then, but it will build up trust!

Ask around relatives, tell them you are collecting them. People get aufully nervous if you tell them you pick locks. To you it's a fun hobby, but to the rest of the world, you are saying you are interested in something that only a theif would do. Sorry, but the rest of the world does not seem to understand our hobby is a fun puzzle, not something dodgy.

If you have some close relatives, or friends, they MIGHT be willing to ask around where they work for you - If they work at an old factory, they can sometimes bring treasures beyond your wildest imagination. Both my Grandad and Dad were able to get me a wonderful selection of old locks when I was a kid. You will start to appreciate the locks made from about 1940-1980 in the UK. They have a charm all of their own and you don't get quite the same feel to them anymore, except possibly for Squire, who still do some locks that have that same "feel".

Talking to a locksmith is going to be interesting - You are probably going to get the "I don't know who you are and you want me to tell you what is how I earn a living after all???" attitude. You might well get very rude answers, but if you are lucky, you just might hit the mother lode...

If you can find a locksmiths that sells locks/cuts keys, NOT the sort that gets you back into your house/car sort of thing, then you might increase your chances. Better still if it is a family business and the man running it is in his 50s or 60s and the stock still looks like it is from the 80s. There is a much better chance he will know the fun of collecting locks and not view you as a thief. I know this sounds over-the-top, but when you are asking big favours from someone who has never seen you before AND they will need to trust you, then first impressions are more important than you might think. Go in dressed in your most sober clothes and be very polite - Definately NOT hoody and MP3 player. Explain how you have collected keys since you were little and now would like to collect some locks (with or without keys, working or not). Say the older the better and so on. If you are lucky, you might get odd locks they will never sell, locks with missiing keys, locks with damaged boxes, locks they had forgotten about, etc. They are likely to sell them at a fraction of their real value and you might even get some free if your luck is in that day.

Don't be discouraged, try different places you see, days out, family holidays - Whenever you are somewhere different, look in the local Yellow Pages and Thomsons Local and tour as many as you can.

When you see someone with a good lock collection, you know they have either put a tremendous ammount of work into it, or a tremendous ammount of money. You will also need some luck.

Good hunting!

[Engineer]

Oops! Please ignore the bit about the wet grinder at the start, that was for another posting I was going to do, but ended up pasted into your reply by accident... GROAN!

Engineer

[tuscarora]

Thanks Engineer, those are some really great tips, I hadn't ever thought of demolition/refurbishment sites - I can see how that could be a gold mine! Haha, I think the site boss would certainly deserve a 12 pack in return for letting you raid the scrap.

I've got a couple of old locks coming from a friend of the family - there does seem to be something nice about older mechanisms then, not just me eh? Also got everyone I know on Spring Steel And Other Useful Metal Watch.

I suspected getting a lock collection is something that takes time and effort but I see that with the right attitude and perserverance you can get there. It's good fun picking a lock (and I suppose you could always have one and repin it) but a variety of keyways and mechanisms is a lot more rewarding. Also it's nice to have a good quality bit of metal fabrication too, finely toleranced - not much of that about these days.

I'll try talking to a locksmith but not neccesarily expect much from it - I'll make sure I'm well presented and polite that day and give it a shot.

Yeah it's funny the way when you mention to people about lock picking their first reaction is always "Why? Planning on burgling somewhere?". Of course, burglars tend to use bricks, not picks.

[cppdungeon]

Try your local restore- mine had tons of cylinders. Also check craigslist, i got a lot of rare/cool stuff from a locksmith estate sale. I gotta try that demo site one...

--Cpp

[raimundo]

cpp dun, I think engineer is in england, so unlikely to have a restore. Tuscarora whos handle suggests the southwest has an accent that may be scottish. So they are really talking about the locks of the UK. Look for words like 'skip' for dumpster, and 'wee' which suggests scotland.

[Engineer]

Yes, please be VERY careful who you tell. I've only told two people in the last year what I do. Both were friends of many years and both were utterly horrifed. Perhaps they thought lockpicking was something from Victorian times?

Pointing out who do they call when they have locked themselves out of their car is pointless, I get the "well, a proper locksmith" answer. Apparently REAL locksmiths are super-humans who do not mix with mere mortals, so the very fact of knowning me as a person, means I cannot be a PROPER locksmith! Quite funny when someone does that to you, but also remarkably insulting if you think about it long enough...

Here in the UK, we don't have Restores as such. Our closest equivalent might be an architectural salvage yard perhaps? Might be worth giving one a go if you have one you can get to? Sadly I don't, so I don't really know how well they would work out. Thanks very much for the suggestion CPP, my closest version might well pay dividends.

I tried Freecycle a few years back, but it was hopeless where I was living at the time, pleanty of stuff on there, but even specific requests for locks/keys (any condition) brought nothing.

Demo sites vary enormously, but wonderful finds include big serious padlocks with BRONZE, not brass bodies (Yale, L&F, etc.) and Ingersol for example (some of their padlocks cost about 4 weeks wages back in the 60s). Squire padlocks with big flat metal sides that look like "figure 8"s (actually known as "English Design"), with the brass sliding keyhole covers and stamped with how many levers they have; are becomming harder to find now sadly. Great addition to your collection if you can find one.

Collecting locks from about 1940-1980 is VERY difficult for some reason. Locks from before then can be found on eBay quite often, and sometimes for almost nothing if the keys are missing. I suppose people think a lock that old might be worth something, or is so odd looking, that they get kept. Locks after then can often still be found in shops, it just seems to be locks from that "Golden Period" that are so difficult to find - All the worse for me, as they often seem to be the ones that I like the most.

I'm glad to know it's not just me then that loves locks of that period - I thought it was! The only problem with professional Lockies is just that - For most of them, it is their profession. For me it a life-long love of the technology as well. Serious lock collectors are into such rare locks that, they are completely out of my league (recently reading about one guy who has one of the locks from a German Enigma code machine for example). So I fall into a strange "no-man's-land" of collector. Ironic since the time period of the locks I tend to like as well, are also falling between collectable antiques and currently used.

During the lean times; when you don't seem able to add much to the collection, it is difficult to keep the enthuasm going. It is worth it though, one day you will find you have a collection quite unlike anyone else and it's all the result of your hard work. There are only three ways to get a good collection - A lot of money, a lot of luck, or a lot of time and hard work.

Finally, you just sometimes stumble into something special. You might want to look at one of my first posts on LP101 about a key I bought for £4 as a child from a shop in Torquay in Devon. I was on holiday with my parents back in the 70s and saw this and a load of other old keys on a massive jailer's keyring. I could only afford this one key as it was almost two weeks pocket money for me back then:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=40774

It's massive and cast iron. I've never seen anything like it since, not even in the books of antique locks I've read. The shop had nothing to do with locks at all, it sold mainly tourist souvenirs, but had some collector's matchboxes in a back room. The keys were hung outside the front doorway, on a peg and very high up so they wouldn't get stolen - But also so high up that I don't think anyone ever saw them for sale either.

[tuscarora]

Hmm, I never thought peoples' reactions would be as bad as that! Yeah when you think about it is quite offensive that they just assume that you're up to no good. Still, that's people for you - I know I've felt a bit funny since I realised that a standard rim cylinder front door lock isn't really very secure at all.

Seeing as I don't have money coming outta my ears and the aul luck is a capricious thing, it's gonna be time and hard work, but I think will be time well spent and eventually will have a collection to be proud of!

engineer - That's a cool key you bought, but two weeks pocket money! You musta been bitten by the bug very early on indeed. I had a look at another thread on here that linked to some interesting pictures of locks, there's been some real eccentric stuff made over the years.

raimundo - I'm Irish (well, technically British, Northern Ireland is part of UK) we use the word wee a lot as well, but well spotted on the accent. Also amazing job on that bogota rake - I made one the other day and she's a champ. I'd noticed people talking about you selling them but hadn't realised you were the inventor until I looked into it a little more.

Hmm, I just realised that my work premises is going to be closing at the end of next week (only sprung that one on us on Monday! We're having to sort out new place pretty fast) and part of that is that they are changing the locks - and there's a couple of disc tumbler (I think that's the name, funny circular key) abloys and some other interesting bits and pieces.. must try and find out if I can have the old ones.

[Engineer]

Yes, I got bitten by the bug when I was just 6. I think it was my Grandad who was showing me some old spare keys he had and he let me have them. If only he knew what he started. I've no locksmiths in the family, so I guess it's all new to them.

People's reactions are quite extream, at least so I've found. The last person I told, she said "Why do you want to do that?" to me. I said to help people and that seems to suprise her. To be honest, I don't understand people's reactions, it has just made me careful about them.

I daren't tell you my reaction when to testing my own front door lock. I picked it with such ease that I said something not suitable for this forum and changed it very next day. I know it is a psychological thing though, since criminals here don't pick locks, they just kick the door in or force a window - I just feel better with a better lock on the door.

Those weird and elaborate locks from years ago, no wonder they were engraved. They took such care in the making of them, that no care was spared on them. Remember that until Whitworth standardised screww threads, every screw, bolt, nut and threaded hole/piller were individually made. So the screw/bolt was made for just the one hole or nut. It might not fit any other one. That was the level of care and skill engineers had to have to make locks and clocks. Something I marvel over frequently when I see pictures like those.

[Raymond]

One more suggestion to find pickable locks: Talk to the manager of a self storage facility. They have to cut off the padlocks of non-paying customers every so often. I you do not mind practicing with cut shackles, at least you can find something.

[tuscarora]

All handmade down to the screws and bolts. Got to admire the skill there, that's real craftsmanship. Seems to me like there are less finely made mechanisms about these days, electronics and plastic moulds just makes a poor substitute.
Sometimes I feel like we're all being turned into button pushers. I work in prepress running a digital press (read: glorified photocopier) and looking back at how old printers used to work, movable type and hot lead compared to what my job entails, just makes ye think.

I spotted a lock at work. It's been sitting there for ages and I just had to open my eyes! There's an old piece of what looks like the door in a metal fence that was taken down ages back and is sitting in the stairwell. There's a nice heavy padlock (Burg-Wachter I think) stuck on the latch that someone's obviously lost the key for and just left it on. I'm going to bring my lockpicks in tomorrow and give it some attention over lunchtime. It was an outdoor lock though, so I might bring in the WD 40 as well!

Cheers Raymond, I'll get the feelers out and see if I can find any storage facility managers - I've seen a few locally so could be a goer. Cut shackles wouldn't bother me for practice!