bramah locks

[matthew-noble]

does anyone know if there is any picking tools available on the market to pick open bramah deadlocks.Had to turn down a job as have no idea how to get into these types of lock cheers

[cybergibbons]

I've never seen one commercially available, but it would be very similar to a tubular lock pick I would have thought.

I've only actually come across a Bramah twice - once on a strong box and the other time on a small secure decorative cupboard in a church in Central London.

[Leverage]

A tool something like a tubular pick has been developed but is not
commercially available .Decoding is possible but very time consuming.
The only practicle remedy is to 'kill it' -however this requires
knowladge of the internals and that can vary depending on the
model,also this might not go down that well with the client,as these locks
tend to be on expensive furniture.In other words unless you make a
point of studying this kind of lock , best leave well alone.

[mr_chris79]

speaking of Brahma does anybody know where i can get a used one to strip down? all i can find are brand new ones

[raimundo]

look at the french site, www.lockpickingfrance.org, and use the search for the parapluie type picks,

The french have a number of pompe locks that fit keys like the bramah does, and some of these may be adaptable or will give you an idea of what to make.

parapluie, is umbrella, pompe, Im not sure what that means.

[arris]

the only bramah lock i have come across was on a big steel door, like really heavy duty to a type of bunker,

was a massive long key an a deadlock, actually replaced it as was broken, but did in the end manage to get it working as they had somehow bent one of the little urrm, wafers inside of it,

very interesting locks, i have it somewhere but would have to really study it to figure out the best way of still getting around it,

[zeke79]

look at the french site, http://www.lockpickingfrance.org, and use the search for the parapluie type picks,

The french have a number of pompe locks that fit keys like the bramah does, and some of these may be adaptable or will give you an idea of what to make.

parapluie, is umbrella, pompe, Im not sure what that means.

Rai is correct in the description of parapluie or umbrella pick. You may be interested in researching the pick design of I believe A.C. Hobbs who successfully picked a bramah lock. Regarding the word pompe, if memory serves me correctly it refers to the push action of the key. Cle a pompe in french translates to push-key in english (ref. High Security Mechanical Locks-An Encyclopedic Reference by Graham W. Pulford) The operation of the pick would be similar to that of a standard axial pick for ace type locks but will need the umbrella design to access the workings of the bramah design.

Any discussion of the actual picking of the bramah lock is something that is to be discussed in the advanced forums.

[Fredmad]

Hello

A sample of an Umbrella (parapluie).

[quintaux]

Umbrella for CAVITH ?

[Fredmad]

Umbrella for CAVITH ?

Yes

[greyman]

look at the french site, http://www.lockpickingfrance.org, and use the search for the parapluie type picks,

The french have a number of pompe locks that fit keys like the bramah does, and some of these may be adaptable or will give you an idea of what to make.

parapluie, is umbrella, pompe, Im not sure what that means.

Rai is correct in the description of parapluie or umbrella pick. You may be interested in researching the pick design of I believe A.C. Hobbs who successfully picked a bramah lock. Regarding the word pompe, if memory serves me correctly it refers to the push action of the key. Cle a pompe in french translates to push-key in english (ref. High Security Mechanical Locks-An Encyclopedic Reference by Graham W. Pulford) The operation of the pick would be similar to that of a standard axial pick for ace type locks but will need the umbrella design to access the workings of the bramah design.

Any discussion of the actual picking of the bramah lock is something that is to be discussed in the advanced forums.

Zeke - I am blushing

To the original poster - there is at least one UK tool for Bramah, but it cannot be discussed in the open forums. The basic idea is pretty simple, and if you understand how the modern Bramah lock works, you will get some ideas about how to open them via NDE.

Fredmad - I guessed that parapluie was for Cavith - you can tell from the 3 axial pin pushers on the end of the tool.

[Fredmad]

I know that how to use this kind of tools is advanced forum. I don't want to explain how to use but just want to answer Greyman.
The 3 pieces on the end of the tool are variable pieces so that when you get the code you put them to turn. In fact Cavith as 5 pump and 3 pins.
Very quickly explained...

[5thcorps]

Don't know how that tool works but it looks cool

[FrenchKey]

Those kind of tools are similar to tubular pick, but they often are used in a picking/decoding way, while tubular picks uses self-impressioning techniques.

With this kind of tools, you have to tension the lock and push each pump ( = Pompe in french = Bramah lock active component) in order to feel the gates. The tricky matter is to differentiate true and false gates, but with some experience and a good knowledge of the lock, it's possible. For each brand, the behaviour of true and false gates are quite different.
For that specific lock, you have to deal with some pins too, but fredmad did not say exactly how to decode the 3 axial pins in order to choose the right variables pieces with his specific tool. But those 3 pins do not have so much protection as serrated or so and can be picked easily.

This kind of locks can also be picked with One wrench and One straight feeler. I never tried myself on a Cavith one specifically, but I successfully picked some others French Pumps locks in that way.
The main drawback of this method is the time. You need to pick several time to do One whole rotation, while an umbrella will keep the code.
But once you have picked it, you can decode easily (because of the construction of the lock) the code and produce a working key.

I hope it will help som of you

FrenchKey

[Fredmad]

Frenchkey said
But those 3 pins do not have so much protection as serrated or so and can be picked easily.

That wrong. Old generation didn't have no security driver but since 4 years Cavith has serrated dirvers.