Picks for SC1 keyways containing spool drivers?

[tballard]

I've got a bunch of Schlage locks which have an SC1 keyway and four of the five driver pins spooled. (First one is normal)

For me, this combination is often harder to pick than other "harder" locks like the American 1105. I've experimented with different tension levels, top tension, bottom tension, picking the plug counter-clockwise, etc... Ultimately though, I think my problem is I'm not using the right pick. Getting around the keyway is tricky, and I usually have the best luck with a SouthOrd half-ball, which I "twist" over the warding and into the keyway. Nothing about this feels "right", and I've even slightly bent a pick doing this, which I've never had happen anywhere else.

Do I need "slimline" picks for this? Any recommendations of favorite picks for this combination?

[tballard]

Okay, I'm going to reply to my own post.

Last night, I talked to Squelchtone about this, and he took some pictures for me of how he approaches a lock like this. I think my problem is not so much with the pick I'm using, but with the location I'm tensioning. I usually justify the bottom edge of the wrench with the bottom of the keyway; however, letting the wrench "float" against the curve of the keyway seems to have much better results. With the wrench floating, I was able to pick one of my more stubborn SC1's with spools in under a minute.

Here are some pictures to show the subtle difference in wrench position (click for larger size):

"Floating" position (win)



"Justified" postion (fail)


I'd be interested in knowing if this is just something which works for me, or if others have improved luck with the floating position as well.

[ToolyMcgee]

I find I need to use it on well worn locks the most.  Usually when the bottom warding gets rounded off and it becomes difficult to keep a pick on it without the wrench there shimming it into that sweet spot. 

The more you pick, the less heavily you should come to rely on one spot for tensioning.  Even on locks you have never had a problem with gripping one specific way, you will always find that one where your preferred tensioning method doesn't result in the best control.  This information would have probaby been more helpful last night, huh? 
No matter what shape the keyway is, if you can find a spot to firmly wedge a wrench that doesn't eat up the keyway, or touch the cylinder sleeve, then you are in full control and the rest getting your pick to a spot where you can effectively lift pins.  Good job on the Schlage by the way.  It was months before I was able to consistently open a good SC with that many spools. You must be practicing.

-Tooly

[tballard]

You must be practicing.

Heh, I've been a little obsessive, and actually you were the one who encourage me to not give up on these a while back, so thank you. There definitely is a lesson here in getting too comfortable and set in your ways.

[Legion303]

Higher security Schlage cylinders (i.e., the ones from lever handles, Primus, most of their mortise cylinders) seem to need a higher level of tension than I'd expect, so spool pins are really going to narrow down the range of tensions you can use. I generally tension from the top of the keyway to let my picks have more space to maneuver. My approach is to use a short hook and go in at an angle to avoid the top ward.

-steve

[ToolyMcgee]

Heh, I've been a little obsessive, and actually you were the one who encourage me to not give up on these a while back, so thank you.

You bought over 50 locks in your first week, so I don't think my slight encouragement played a huge factor in your picking progress. Right out the gate you were a collector, and that's as large a part of the hobby as picking practice.

There definitely is a lesson here in getting too comfortable and set in your ways.

Yes, and picking new keyways, brands, and used locks will teach you that lesson repeatedly.

In rereading your previous post I see you have had good results with a half ball, and when I was first putting spools in them it was my best pick too. Only for the schlage though. I think my success with it was mostly because it lifts multiple pins and my tension was heavy. It helped me get good spool feedback, without getting overwhelmed by the potential false sets of each individual pin, which lead to responsive raking, and the raking practice gave me the tension adjustment I needed to switch back to the hook SPP. I grip it where I can and use the hook almost always, but if I have trouble I'll try a half diamond or double half diamond.

-Tooly

[tballard]

In rereading your previous post I see you have had good results with a half ball, and when I was first putting spools in them it was my best pick too. Only for the schlage though. I think my success with it was mostly because it lifts multiple pins and my tension was heavy. It helped me get good spool feedback, without getting overwhelmed by the potential false sets of each individual pin, which lead to responsive raking, and the raking practice gave me the tension adjustment I needed to switch back to the hook SPP. I grip it where I can and use the hook almost always, but if I have trouble I'll try a half diamond or double half diamond.

What you say about raking is very important. I tend to personally avoid raking most the time because it's not interesting; however, I learned probably my most important early lesson raking with a half diamond. About two or three days after I first started picking I had a cylinder in a pair of vise grips and for whatever reason decided to grab the back of the plug with my fingers and try that for tension. Imagine my surprise when the simple act of withdrawing the pick cause the lock to rake open! (This was a Kwikset, go figure....)

Anyway, torquing the plug from behind with just my thumb and fingers (no wrench) made it nearly impossible to over-tension since I don't have kung-fu grip. And it let me discover that raking depends in large part on the right tension. The tension needed to rake is similar to the tension needed to pick, but because there is less focus (at least for the beginner) on what you are doing with the pick hand, you concentrate on the wrench a lot more.

[MacGnG1]

TBALL!!! thanks!!!