BUMPKEY TRIGGER LOCK PINS- a one step defense

[yono]

to my fellow locksmiths

[yono]

page 2: Bumpkey trigger lock pins.

[SnowyBoy]

to my fellow locksmiths

Ok..... I like the idea, but I see one problem. If someone uses a bump key on your lock and gets ir binded up with the trigger pin, what is to stop them extracting the bump key and lifting the trigger pin with a pick?

[yono]

As i explained, in the requirement, this feature should carry one deepest pin, not align with the trigger pins. this "deepest pin" will trapped the bumpkey. it cant be bypass, nor it can be lift up, for it stuck on the cylinder wall.

[SnowyBoy]

As i explained, in the requirement, this feature should carry one deepest pin, not align with the trigger pins. this "deepest pin" will trapped the bumpkey. it cant be bypass, nor it can be lift up, for it stuck on the cylinder wall.

Its not possible to bind the key in though. If all the cuts are 9 (being a bump key) then that means the lock pin will have to be a 10, which does not exist.... thus allowing the key to be removed with no hindrance whatsoever.

[SnowyBoy]

Also, the fact that the lock pin is sprung to fall in to the cylinder to block it means it can be overlifted since there is nothing locking it from going back up.

[yono]

thanks for another quest, lets put it this way, pinned a cylinder, let say, a sargent, on those pin put one that is its deepest, that pin would be .355" , now insert your bumpkey, turn the cylinder, from its vertical axis, 45 degrees, on that position, pull the bumpkey out.can you extract it. without bringing it back to its original axis?. lipting the trigger lock pins is not possible, when the bumpkey itself, stuck and trapped at the key hole. thanks for the question.

[datagram]

Hate to break this to you, but this is called a trap pin, and it has been around for a good long time. The problem is that trap pins require the lock to be drilled out, making them unsuitable/inefficient for most installations.

dg

[datagram]

Also, the fact that the lock pin is sprung to fall in to the cylinder to block it means it can be overlifted since there is nothing locking it from going back up.

In a proper design the trap pin uses *extremely* high tension springs or other mechanisms that prevent it from moving once triggered.

dg

[yono]

mr. Datagram thanks for the info, is there any picture or brand that is similar to this idea of mine that i can get a view of? because right now i was working again with this project, and enchancing the capability of this cylinder, by a double lock trigger pins. it would be then against picking and bumpkeying. it will be a type of lock for my front and back door.

[SnowyBoy]

I remember being told that they use that type of lock in Japan a lot.

[datagram]

mr. Datagram thanks for the info, is there any picture or brand that is similar to this idea of mine that i can get a view of? because right now i was working again with this project, and enchancing the capability of this cylinder, by a double lock trigger pins. it would be then against picking and bumpkeying. it will be a type of lock for my front and back door.

The M&C Antiklop is the only one I can think of, pictures of it are in this TOOOL WhatTheHack presentation (Slide :

http://wiki.whatthehack.org/images/0/00 ... ntatie.pdf

dg

[Engineer]

Hi yono,

This does sound like a good idea, but I too couldn't see what there was to stop the trapping pin from just being relifted.

I don't know if my idea would work or not, but I think I mis-read your diagram. I thought the trapping pin was a spool pin? Now what I thought was that once the trapping pin had entered the cylinder, trying to pull the key out would upset the trapping pin just like trying to pick a spool pin. The spool pin would be wedged then and you could not "pick" it back into position again as the bump key would be blocking the keyway?

Just a thought.

[Raymond]

For a trap pin lock look for the Hines Key System, by Segal. It uses a small flat wafer that is raised by the correctly cut key. If this wafer is allowed to fall below the shear line, the trap pin is exposed to the plug and will spring in to lock up the plug. The plug is drilled with a round hole that has a pin in the middle. The trap pin has a hole drilled in it to fit around the pin in the hole. They lock together very well. If picking is attempted, the lock must be drilled out or taken apart from the inside.

[SnowyBoy]

For a trap pin lock look for the Hines Key System, by Segal. It uses a small flat wafer that is raised by the correctly cut key. If this wafer is allowed to fall below the shear line, the trap pin is exposed to the plug and will spring in to lock up the plug. The plug is drilled with a round hole that has a pin in the middle. The trap pin has a hole drilled in it to fit around the pin in the hole. They lock together very well. If picking is attempted, the lock must be drilled out or taken apart from the inside.

Ok, so let me get this right...... the trap pin has to have its own trap pin to stop it being raised.

Could be interesting.