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How much horsepower does a key machine really use?

Got a question about key machines? not sure what to buy? need a user manual? have some tips for keeping one running well or need help cutting or programming keys? Post here!

How much horsepower does a key machine really use?

Postby WOT » 27 Mar 2008 12:16

My plain manual duplicator has a big 1/4 hp motor while a really old code cutter I just got only has a 1/12 hp. They're both 1725RPM.

Larger motors have a larger rotor with greater inertia, so the starting current demand is much greater for the 1/4 hp. This is a big deal since if you were to use it on the road, you need a behemoth inverter to start it.
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Postby freakparade3 » 27 Mar 2008 12:21

I have a key machine related question I'm looking for opinions on. I still use my old FB 200 for some keys. The belts keep stretching on it. I want opinions on wether it would work correctly if I replaced the belts and pulleys with gears and roller chain.
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Postby WOT » 27 Mar 2008 12:43

freakparade3 wrote:I have a key machine related question I'm looking for opinions on. I still use my old FB 200 for some keys. The belts keep stretching on it. I want opinions on wether it would work correctly if I replaced the belts and pulleys with gears and roller chain.


Belts are like car tires. When your belt gets stretched out, what are you replacing with? A fresh new belt, or a new old stock that's decades old?

If using a correct, fresh belt and adjusting tension doesn't work, you can try using toothed belt, like the kind used on motorcycles and engine timing.

My duplicator has a hard leather like belt like a automotive fan belt while my code cutter has a round elastic giant O-ring like belt.

Chains need to be lubricated and at the speed used on a key machine, you better make sure it's covered well since it's going to spray oil everywhere and it's probably less tolerant of brass dust ingestions.
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Postby Abus » 27 Mar 2008 18:30

On the horsepower issue, I'd say that 1/4 is definitely on the high side, and you could probably swap it to a lesser motor. Or, if you were really interested in optimizing performance, go 12VDC. A new 12vdc 1/14 or 1/12 1750RPM motor would be pricy, however, you can probably find a surplus one that wouldn't be more than $50 or so.

On the belt issue, I'd definitely go to a better belt, or a new belt&pulley system instead of a chain. You may have an issue with your pulleys eating the belt, rather than the belts themselves. Also, I'd suspect poor belt quality and design if they stretch much.
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Postby WOT » 27 Mar 2008 18:37

Abus wrote:On the horsepower issue, I'd say that 1/4 is definitely on the high side, and you could probably swap it to a lesser motor. Or, if you were really interested in optimizing performance, go 12VDC. A new 12vdc 1/14 or 1/12 1750RPM motor would be pricy, however, you can probably find a surplus one that wouldn't be more than $50 or so.

On the belt issue, I'd definitely go to a better belt, or a new belt&pulley system instead of a chain. You may have an issue with your pulleys eating the belt, rather than the belts themselves. Also, I'd suspect poor belt quality and design if they stretch much.


Toothed belt would probably extend bearing life though, since you won't as much tension.
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Postby Abus » 28 Mar 2008 10:11

Unless bearings are wearing out though, a toothed belt has disadvantages too:

If unshielded, it is less safe. Not a big deal, but it is a bit nastier to bump into.

It has no room for slippage when you might WANT slippage, for example, if you crash a cutter into a vise jaw or similar, a non-toothed belt is sort of like a safety fuse.
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Postby WOT » 28 Mar 2008 10:18

Abus wrote:Unless bearings are wearing out though, a toothed belt has disadvantages too:

If unshielded, it is less safe. Not a big deal, but it is a bit nastier to bump into.

It has no room for slippage when you might WANT slippage, for example, if you crash a cutter into a vise jaw or similar, a non-toothed belt is sort of like a safety fuse.


Not really. Remember there are some key machines that are direct-drive.
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Postby Abus » 28 Mar 2008 15:58

Oh, I realize that some are direct drive, etc. It was mainly an effort on my part to point out that there are disadvantages of a toothed belt, or for that matter direct drive.

A good example would be metal working lathes...some are belts, some are direct drive, some are geared, etc. Ones that are belted drive are less likely to break expensive parts when crashed into the compound or similar. I've had to replace gears in such situations, but a belt would have just slipped (adverse to its longevity, but not a big deal considering).
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Postby maintenanceguy » 28 Mar 2008 20:37

1725 RPM is awfully fast for roller chain. Especially on such a small sprocket. Roller chain isn't very forgiving either. If something were to bind the cutting wheel, a belt can slip a little. With roller chain, the motor will have to slam to a stop breaking a small roller chain.

Roller chain at high speeds in noisy. Belts are quiet.

Something's wrong with the belts your buying if they're stretching. Maybe you need to upgrade to standard size industrial pulley's and standard size industrial belts. Industrial belts have cording (even available in kevlar - no stretch) to minimize stretching. If you've got a round profile rubber belt with no cord, throw those pulley's out. A standard industrial belt with a 2L cross section is only 1/4" across and won't stretch beyond the tiny stretch that happens in the first few minutes of running, the first time you turn the machine on.

FYI, belts often become loose because they wear down but not because they stretch. A worn belt looks fine, just a little smaller but you often can't tell by looking a it. If your belt wasn't tensioned properly, the bearings are partially seized, or the pulleys are misaligned belts slip and can wear down. When belts wear, the inside diameter gets worn a little bigger and a little looser.
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Re: How much horsepower does a key machine really use?

Postby Engineer » 17 Mar 2009 22:55

I KNOW this is a really old thread (sorry...) , but incase anyone picks up on it during a search as I just did, I wanted to add that belts are there for a reason other than transmission of power - They are an emergency "slip" clutch incase the machine gets fouled up, stalled, key caught, etc.

Direct drive must NEVER be used on a reasonably powerful motor without over-current protection/cutout on the motor. This protects your motor, your machine, helps prevent fires, etc.

If you do change it, then perhaps a toothed belt (if you can get the matching pulleys), but you MUST enclose the belt in a guard for your own safety. The guard is not just to stop you from getting caught up in it, but also to protect you if the machine siezes. etc. and the power of the motor forces the belt off the pulleys at fairly high speed. Even if you do this, if a fault starts to occur with your machine, so that it gets harder to turn, the motor will still keep pouring power into it. This is tressing the motor and possibly looking at a burn-out, but also the siezing bearing or whatever on your machine will be running way beyond it's limits and will be overheating and scouring the bearings.

My own feeling is that you shouldn't risk it on anything other than an older machine (that you wouldn't loose sleep over it getting damaged) with a relatively low-power motor on it.

The power of the motor you require is suprisingly low - 1/12 HP is enough, but because modern motors now pack enormous power in VERY small motors, you get machines now with very powerful motors indeed. To my way of thinking, you often get a lot more power than you really need now. You get to cut keys a little faster, but you have a lower safety overhead.

The motor on my circular saw for example is 1.2KW and is only about 4" x 3" x 2". Much smaller than the one on my key machine, but a lot more powerful.
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Re: How much horsepower does a key machine really use?

Postby straightpick » 22 Mar 2009 0:40

I have a key machine related question I'm looking for opinions on. I still use my old FB 200 for some keys. The belts keep stretching on it. I want opinions on wether it would work correctly if I replaced the belts and pulleys with gears and roller chain.


No need to get so radical! I've had this setup going for about 10 years. Find yourself a 1/12 HP motor, with motor mount, 1725 rpm that will take a standard pulley for a 3/8" wide V-belt. The diameter of this pulley should be 2-1/2". The pulley on the cutter shaft should be 2" in diameter.(not sure, it's been so long, but I think that is what comes with the machine. Your belt will need to be 23-23 inches. Mount the motor, wire in a switch,put on the belt and you will be all set. The pulley ratios give the perfect speed for the cutter wheel. I also mounted a HPCW-14MC cutter on mine. Same diameter, thickness and hole size as the Foley cutter. You now have a SWEET code cutting machine!
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