Laser Cut Keys

[logosys]

I've poked around, but I can't seem to find a decent amount of information on these things. What makes these things special (and expensive!)?

[CycloneJack]

I have two cars that require laser cut keys. When I needed a copy I called around town, and after telling them the make and model (both dodge) they said only a cert. dealership could make the copy. I went to the dealership and talked to the guy who made the keys. He said there are millions of patterns possible for every car model and the locks were sensitive (to 1/1000th of a inch) to the shape of the tip of the key, length and width of grooves on the side of the key, small vertical bars that fell across the body of the key, ect. All of these variables are stored in a database that only the dealership could access, and only one key will open and start the car. A computer basically makes the copy after downloading the keys "blueprint" from the manufacturer. I’m not sure if it use's a real laser to actually cut the key. Hopefully he knew what he was talking about.

[Romstar]

Congratulations.

Again, we have another case of someone being lied to.

While I will admit that not a lot of locksmiths have the machines for cutting these keys, they are available, and it is entirely possible to make them without a dealership.

There realy isn't that much sensitivity to these keys as far as the mechanicals go, and the transponder blanks are readily available. As are the tools that code the transponder.

To be perfectly honest, the most difficult part of these keys isn't cutting them, but simply having the machine to read the transponder codes from the vehicle computer. Those machines cose about $5,000.00 US.

Being completely equipted to handle the new laser cut and transponder keys requires an investment of well over $30,000.00. With continuing costs each year.

It can be a very lucrative business, but one you have to be prepared to work at.

Romstar

[Chucklz]

I wonder if the dealer was just giving you a line, or if they were actually fed the same crap by the company. Think about a key that had those high tolerances. Then think about wear.

[Buggs41]

Basically saying,

The dealership states that the key has too tight a tolerance to duplicate.

How tight are the tolerances to pick this lock?

Any one see where I am going with this???

[Chucklz]

I know that there are various picks operating on raking principles, and several sets of jigglers for "laser" keys.

[randmguy]

I would think that the toughest part of picking these locks would be manipulating the wafers themselves...The projections that contact the key are only about .025". If you can manage catching the wafer projections or the wafers themselves the tolerances are no different than any other automotive lock. We're still talking brass wafers in contact with a steel key...They had to plan for some tolerance just for wear. I don't know about the dealers but HPC designed my key machine to .003" tolerance.

[Foogoo]

I know of a few locksmiths where I live that can cut "laser cut keys". Not very cheap, but they can do it nevertheless.

[locksmistress]

I'm not so sure what "laser cut" actually means with keys. I've heard the term bandied around alot lately - most recently in reference to Schlage Everest when they first came out (soooo not laser anything!) - but I've never had any manufacturer actually explain where it comes in.

I suspect it has to do with the precision with which the blanks are manufactured but I'm really curious to know for sure.

We don't copy chipped keys at our shop (diagnostic and programming way too expensive) but we do copy regular auto keys. Some of the new chipped keys coming out are the same profile as the older models - they differ only by the chip - and it's not always easy to tell by looking that they have a chip at all. At any rate, we cut these keys, not knowing, and they work just fine as far as turning the ignition - the car just doesn't start.

So the physical tolerances are not necessarily what they'd like you to think they are.

I wouldn't be suprised if the only thing 'laser cut' was the corporate logo on the side of the key.

[Romstar]

The actual factory keys are in fact cut with a laser.

There is no need whatsoever to use a laser, as anyone with a multi-trax machine will tell you.

You just need a very good vertical milling cutter with an appropriate head, and really good control software.

Ilco sells a very cheap device which will tell you if a key has a transponder or not, and their transponder DUPLICATOR is actually pretty cheap.

That would be the best way to get into to doing those keys. That way you can make copies, but you can't originate new keys. If the market expands itself, then you can justify the expense of those more expensive devices for reading the vehicle computers.

Romstar

[toomush2drink]

These have been in circulation over here for a few years now and are not difficult to cut its the chip programming thats the catch. As romstar mentioned you need all the software and machines to programme them on the newer cars.

Heres a machine on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=633&item=3832139469&rd=1

Also have a look around here for a general idea http://www.johnrichard.co.uk/

[Romstar]

Well, aren't you the lucky guy.
Make sure you buy that thing. It's only up to 137 pounds so far.

Seeing as how us poor North American buggers can't get it. It would be a great thing to have.

Romstar

[toomush2drink]

I would buy it if i had any use for it but i dont do cars Im still on the look out for a cheap mortice machine though but dont they seem to come up that often.

[Romstar]

I would buy it if i had any use for it but i dont do cars Im still on the look out for a cheap mortice machine though but dont they seem to come up that often.

Take a good, hard look at that machine.

It does dimple keys as well. Any key that requires a milling type cutter, such as dimple keys, tracked keys, and so-called laser-cut automotive keys.

Given that these things usually retail in the thousands of pounds, I would be all over that. Set it beside your normal key machine, and you are gold.

Since you are in the UK, I would imagine you have a normal machine that can do both pin tumbler, and bit and mortice keys as well as slotted keys. So, between those two machines, you would be pretty much set for cutting.

If you really wanted to get into automotive, keep your eyes open for some of the transponder programmers. Or, simply don't do transponder keys.

Romstar

[CycloneJack]

I guess the guy was lying. What do you expect from a car salesman who is acting like he is preforming nurosurgury?