How to fix a lock filled with super glue?

[cryptocat]

globallockytoo, your post makes my chemistry cry.

Methinks a trip to the hardware store is in order. Test jig: 1/8" brass rod, 1/8" ID brass tube, and some 1/4" ID glass tube. The rod should slide inside the tube about as well as a pin in the plug. Might need to gently sand the rod a bit. Cut the rod and tube into 1/2" sections, and glue a 1/4" section - there should be 1/4" inch of rod sticking out of the tube. Make one of these assemblies for each solvent you're testing.

After letting the glue set for 5 minutes, immerse the test piece in solvent and use a piece of glass tube to hold it upright. Test is complete when the rod falls into the tube under its own weight.

Another possible test jig: cheap hinges. glue the pivot and then see which solvents (if any) will dissolve cyanoacrylate, and how long it takes. Test is complete when the hinge bends under its own weight again.

Another possible test jug: a ball bearing and a flat piece of metal placed at an incline. Test is complete when enough of the glue has dissolved to allow the bearing to roll off the metal.

While my tube of Krazy Glue (tm) does say that acetone can be used as a solvent, there are indications that this is most effective when the glue hasn't fully set. It may be that after the glue has set, you're not getting it out.

Solvents to test:

• nail polish remover (acetone-free)
• nail polish remover (acetone)
• paint thinner (mineral spirit)
• paint stripper (acid?)
• industrial cleaner (TSP)
• paint stripper (GBL)
• ???

[mhole]

Guys, there are many, many people who can tell you what solvent is appropriate to which glue, but that doesn't mean squat. There is a world of difference between being able to dilute a glue or soften small drops of it on a glass or ceramic surface, and being able to soften, disolve and entirely flush out a cylinder to the point that it works at all, let alone with sufficient ease to turn without breaking the key. Try it on a cheap cylinder - you'll have a bugger of a time getting it unjammed at all, even with it's off the door and immersed in acetone or whatever for several hours/days.

[cryptocat]

Indeed. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data" - I'm just proposing a method by which interested parties can test whether or not it is reasonable to try dissolve a solvent. Once some candidates are found, then we can sacrifice a dozen dollar-store padlocks and maybe a kwikset or two to estimate how practical it is to try un-glue. I agree, it's probably not going to work in the Real World, but I like hard data.

FWIW, the last time one of my locks met superglue, destructive entry was needed. It died a quick death at the hands of the school janitor and his bolt cutters. And someone had to buy me a new lock.

[mhole]

Crypto - I liked your suggestion, I was really talking more to the people who pop up and say 'acetone will open it' then dissappear.

One of the biggest problems with trying to flush the lock using a solvent is that at the point of application, thin CA/super glue will have been drawn deep into the working parts of the lock by capillary action. This capillary action relies on two close, but not actually touching surfaces, which 'wick' the glue into the tiny void between them. As soon as the glue is in there, the void is filled, and your solvent can't penetrate. In addition, solvents usually require some manual assistance to remove CA glue - you apply solvent, then wipe/scrub/scrape the softened glue to remove it. No can do in a lock - the layer of glue at the front is exposed to solvent, but you can't scrub it or scrape it in the interface of core/body or pin/bible. Even worse, the solvent can't even reach the vast majority of the glue, just the surfaces near the keyway.

In short, it's a PITA.

[EDT]

I asked around, and one guy in a hardware store told me that once someone put super glue in the lock of the door of his store. He told me that he poured acetone in the cylinder and ignite it. He said that afterwards he was able to unlock the lock with his key, but had to replace the lock.

The question is if it's possible to repel super glue by spraying a teflon spray on and inside the lock.

[cryptocat]

One of the biggest problems ... is that ... glue will have been drawn deep into the working parts of the lock by capillary action. ... In short, it's a PITA.

Y'know, I was thinking "capillary action" as I was writing, I just forgot to write those words. Anyway, at least with the hinge and simulated pin test rigs the capillary action should be obvious.

One thing I haven't looked into is whether dissolved CA will resolidify after the solvent evaporates. I'm wondering if, after you flushed enough acetone through to get the lock open, the acetone would evaporate leaving behind enough CA residue to gum things up again. I haven't used organic chemistry in a long time, I'm not sure what would happen.

Wikipedia does say that CA bond strength decreases greatly when frozen - maybe an inverted can of dusting spray would allow the the glue to be easily fractured. That probably wouldn't help if you've got a great big clot of glue somewhere - you'd just get shards or CA powder still blocking the movement of parts.

So the PITA factor remains. I'm trying to imagine an acetone flush rig you could hang on someone's door - it's not pretty. I keep seeing acetone dribbling out the back of the door, dissolving the paint or stain, and messing up the front entrance.

[cryptocat]

One thing I haven't looked into is whether dissolved CA will resolidify after the solvent evaporates. I'm wondering if, after you flushed enough acetone through to get the lock open, the acetone would evaporate leaving behind enough CA residue to gum things up again. I haven't used organic chemistry in a long time, I'm not sure what would happen.

I just happened to have occasion to use some CA this afternoon and clean it up a bit with acetone. It cleaned up quite nicely (though it probably hadn't finished polymerization yet). I left some of the acetone/CA solution on the surface - the acetone evaporated and left behind a chunky residue of CA. A bit more washing with acetone followed by a final flush with isopropanol cleared it up. Now I know.

[EDT]

I just happened to have occasion to use some CA this afternoon and clean it up a bit with acetone. It cleaned up quite nicely (though it probably hadn't finished polymerization yet). I left some of the acetone/CA solution on the surface - the acetone evaporated and left behind a chunky residue of CA. A bit more washing with acetone followed by a final flush with isopropanol cleared it up. Now I know.

Did you do it while the cylinder is in the lock, the door is locked and you are outside the door?
Did you try to ignite the aceton with fire, and then push and turn the key?

[barbarian]

I have to agree with mhole.

I intentionally put super glue on some lock parts to hold them in position while I took some pictures. It was hard to get off. I found nail polish remover to be almost useless. I think it's diluted. Pure acetone from the hardware store smelled MUCH stronger and still took a day to dissolve the stuff. This is with the parts in a dish covered in liquid. Inside a lock I can't imagine the solvent getting to all the glue. I tried lacquer thinner and it seemed to have no effect. I thought about MEK, but didn't try it.

Even after the solvent had a while to work It still left a gummy bunch of will-nots on the parts. I had to wipe them with a cloth to remove them. If the part is pulled out of the acetone, the goo seems to sort of re harden and form white crud.

If someone squirted a few drops in the keyway, you might be able to loosed it up with solvent enough to remove the lock for a complete cleaning. If it's a euro or the glue gets into the works of the lock, good luck.

I wonder how many guys will dump a cup of acetone inside a locked door and then light it on fire. Explain that one to the insurance investigators.

[cryptocat]

Did you do it while the cylinder is in the lock, the door is locked and you are outside the door?
Did you try to ignite the aceton with fire, and then push and turn the key?

Actually, I was working with glass objects rather than locks. I had a counter full of flammable liquids and setting any or all of them on fire was very low on my priority list. It just occurred to me that since I had a nice clear piece of glass, some CA and some acetone, I could test for myself how quickly CA would dissolve and if a residue would be left behind.

[tballard]

globallockytoo, your post makes my chemistry cry.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data"

Cryptocat, you're my hero!

[EDT]

I wonder how many guys will dump a cup of acetone inside a locked door and then light it on fire. Explain that one to the insurance investigators.

What about the insurance? There was no burglary, so I don't have to involve the insurance. The super glue is just vandalism to the lock, and I'm looking for a cheap way to fix it or at least enter my home and replace the cylinder, instead of drilling it.

Actually, I was working with glass objects rather than locks. I had a counter full of flammable liquids and setting any or all of them on fire was very low on my priority list. It just occurred to me that since I had a nice clear piece of glass, some CA and some acetone, I could test for myself how quickly CA would dissolve and if a residue would be left behind.

The thing is that you don't have to dissolve all of the super glue, and clean the cylinder completely. You just have to dissolve the super glue enough to be able to unlock the lock with the key just once, so you will be able to enter your home and replace the cylinder without calling a locksmith and drill the cylinder (very expensive).

[mhole]

I think, if you actually read, and absorb the comments left by people *who have actually encountered this problem* you'll quickly see they're all agreed that destructive opening is the only way to open a superglued cylinder.

Whilst the cylinder might be expensive, the costs to replace your door, flooring and possibly entire home, will be rather more. Most of the methods discussed risk serious damage to your door or carpets/floors by use of solvents, and at least one presents a very real risk of burning your house down. DON'T DO IT!

If you know how to open the lock destructively, do that. If not, call a locksmith. If you tell them exactly what the lock is, and agree on a price in advance you will be in a better position. A good locksmith may also be able to open the door using a bypass method which cann't be discussed here - this depends on what your cylinder is actually operating.

[barbarian]

I wonder how many guys will dump a cup of acetone inside a locked door and then light it on fire. Explain that one to the insurance investigators.

What about the insurance? There was no burglary, so I don't have to involve the insurance. The super glue is just vandalism to the lock, and I'm looking for a cheap way to fix it or at least enter my home and replace the cylinder, instead of drilling it.

I was thinking about burning the house down. Did you get glue in both doors ? Or maybe the place only has one door in.

If you were lucky enough to somehow get the key to work enough to get inside, then I'm still thinking you need to put on a new lock while you try to fix the old one.

[cryptocat]

I was thinking about burning the house down.

Uh... this is the open forum. We only discuss non-destructive entry (ie. picking) here.

But for picking music I like upbeat stuff like "firestarter", "the roof is on fire", and "burnin' down the house". Maybe "ring of fire" if a lock is being very uncooperative.