I need a recommendation for a high security lock

[unlisted]

Look! I found a photo of the OP!!!



Sorry, all in good fun, could not resist seeing as where this thread is going...

[unlisted]

On another note, I just looked up your IP, I hope your in a "good neighbourhood" in that country..

[raimundo]

I don't know of any scale on the shattering characteristics of steel, but anything that can shatter steel is way beyond the ability of any lock to resist. Steel usually will bend if its thin or the force is great. some things like artillery shells are actually made to shatter, and they produce very sharp jagged fragments, that come over with a peculiar noise, sort of a dopper shifing shoossh oosh oosh oosh oosh.

You are talking about a house door, not a bunker or bank vault I hope,

[EDT]

I live in Israel, in the center of a major city. But, it's not very good neighbourhood in the aspects of burglaries.

It's out of the question to move apartment, because that I own my apartment (I don't rent it), and because of the VERY high costs. Besides, there can be break-ins everywhere.

My neighbours mind there own business, and they are not different from many others. They are mostly old people. I don't know if any of them saw or heard somethng, but I do know that when I called a locksmith to unlock my glued cylinder, and he drilled it for over a hour, no one of my neighbours called the police or even peeped to see what is all the noise (I saw light in some of the apartments).

I don't mind that a burglar will see all that security as long as he will have to bring a VERY heavy equipment to get in. Moreover, a burglar would rather break into a low security places.

The DJArmor looks like a good solution, but I talked with a contractor to build me custom reinforcements.

About the shattering characteristics of steel, I know that there are some levels. For example, a drill of level 40 is useless against a steel of level 45 (I just threw numbers). But, I don't know what is considered to be VERY good.
I want the door itself to be made of a thick reinforced steel, and filled with concrete instead of foam. I don't worry about the cylinder, since I'm intending to install a hidden "knock lock" cylinder (there will be no key hole, or any other indication of where the cylinder is located). So, the door itself and the door frame should be very strong, so it will be VERY hard to bend or cut them.
However, the weak spot of the door with the hidden door will still be the knob that will turn the bolts. I don't have a solution for this part.
One more weak spot is the peeping eyepiece. But, I don't need it since I already have a hidden camera outside the door.
I've been told that this kind of reinforced door and frame would cost me about 2000-2500 dollars without the hidden lock that is cost a few hundreds more dollars.
It is possible to coat the exterior of the door with wood, so it won't be very attractive to burglars.

Now I'm just thinking whether to mount a traitional style door with massive hinges, or to stretch the budget a bit, and mount a reinforced steel sliding door that will slide between concrete and steel, so it will be harder to displace it.

[adrenalynn]

Anecdote:
I lived in Oakland, CA many moons ago when I was in college. My apartment kept getting repeatedly broken into. I went higher security, that fell. I reinforced the jam, that fell. I eventually had a steel fire door, 3" penetrating bolts into titanium, tore the sheetrock out inside and reinforced the frame all the way back to four feet out to the sides with steel i-beam, welded vertically and horizontally.

You'd think that'd be the end of the forced entry, right?

naw, they just kicked through the wall down the hall. Just a couple pieces of 5/8" sheetrock, not even any insulation. To make matters even more insulting, they stole my alarm system too. [sigh]

Another vote for the Mossberg solution here.

[EDT]

^^^
OMG !!!
Are you serious?!
I have only one shared wall with my neighbour, and one wall to the stairways. Maybe I should also reinforce them with concrete?

[tballard]

I have only one shared wall with my neighbour, and one wall to the stairways. Maybe I should also reinforce them with concrete?

Perhaps. I've posted on this in another thread, but Bruce Schneier (a well known cryptographer/security expert) has a concept he calls "attack trees". Basically, people will attack the weakest link. Reinforce your lock? They go for the door frame. Reinforce your door frame? They go for the windows. Reinforce your windows? They go for ...

Ultimately, what you should be seeking is something which is enough to make your neighbors apartments "easier" targets than yours. If your apartment is getting targeted and is obviously more challenging to get into, then you are being targeted for a reason. You have something someone wants, they think you have something due to higher security, or they have a personal grudge against you.

You're rapidly running into dangers here, which I suspect you are much more aware of than I am, but just to be sure, I feel the need to discuss them. First, if you are being targeted, raising your physical security increases the chance of direct attack. (Can't break in, but I can wait until you come home and then put a gun to your head) Second, you may be decreasing your overall safety in other ways, such as fire protection. If one of your neighbors has a fire, how do the fire fighters get into your apartment to put it out or rescue you if you need help? Finally, I don't know about building codes in your part of the world, but it is very possible there are regulations you will be required to follow for construction or you will be compelled to rip out all your enhancements at your expense.

Back to the less paranoid now.

If I were you, I would upgrade my door frame, get a steel door, and outfit it with a high-security lock covered with a Gemini Shield. I'd also do something like your "knock lock" but would probably use radio frequency, since the keyspace is larger and it is less detectable to eavesdropping. As far as a high security lock, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Since you are in Israel, I would probably consider a Mul-T-Lock because they are local. Using a local lock will make it easier to buy the lock and get parts, as well as make it less unusual in appearance. (Around my part of the world, Mul-T-Lock's are rare, and the one time I've seen one "in the wild" it certainly caught my eye.)

[adrenalynn]

Mr. Ballard and I seem to have been separated at birth. I agree across the board with what he wrote above.

The punchline to my story is that I adopted a military service dog (I'm a lifer military brat), a big German Shepard named "Rusty". He had a couple problems that had developed that made him "no longer fit for service". He was practically narcoleptic, and he had grown to despise loud noises. About three weeks later, there was another rash of burglaries and I got the call from the alarm company. They called the cops, and I rushed home, just half a mile away. The cops had one of the two perps in an ambulance, but couldn't get to the second one. Rusty was asleep at the end of the hall on the unconscious guy laying in a pool of blood. And he got cranky with the police when they tried to get to the guy. I called Rusty over and they loaded that guy into an ambulance as well.

It looked like a warzone across all three floors of the stairwell and the hall to my apartment. Blood _everywhere_.

The further punchline: I got nailed with a $30,000 cleaning bill from the apartment complex (which I cheerfully defaulted on, and they cheerfully didn't pursue), and I got sued by one of the scumbags. Seems I didn't have a warning about the killer dog on the other side of the door. [shrug] That's what insurance is for...

Anywho - I agree with TBallard. Don't put yourself at risk of unintended consequence.

[EDT]

About being a target, I thnk that the best thing is to use a VERY high security, reinforcing th front door, the frame, the windows and the shared walls. But, to avoid suspicious eyes, I should coat to front door and the frame with wood, so it wouldn't look like a bank safe, and install a high security dummy Mul-T-Lock cylinder that costs about $100 and operates nothing.
The cylinder is high security, so it won't be attacked by simple burglars, and if someone would like to attack it, then he would spend a lot of time drilling it and trying to figure out why it doesn't unlock.
The real lock will be the Knock Lock, which won't be visible. It operates using a remote control that produce a series of rapid knocks when you attach it to the door, after you click on it your 4-6 digit numeral personal code. The series of knocks is changed after each time, so it can't be recorded.
I have a security system that calls directly to my cell phone (it operates on rechargeable batteries when there is no current, and use it's own cell phone to call when the land line is dead), but I think that a guard dog might be a fine addition.

$30,000 to clean all the blood?! It's a good thing that there is an insurance.
In Israel the law is pro the burglars. I rmmember one incident where a burglar broke into someone house and stole a TV. On his way out he tripped over a loose pavement and broke his leg. He sued the landlord for his damage and won.

About the hidden door, burglars might use a super mica to figure out where are the locked bolts, so they might know where there is a hidden cylinder. Does anyone have any idea how to prevent the insertion of the super mica between the door and the frame?

[vap0r]

Anecdote:
I lived in Oakland, CA many moons ago when I was in college. My apartment kept getting repeatedly broken into. I went higher security, that fell. I reinforced the jam, that fell. I eventually had a steel fire door, 3" penetrating bolts into titanium, tore the sheetrock out inside and reinforced the frame all the way back to four feet out to the sides with steel i-beam, welded vertically and horizontally.

You'd think that'd be the end of the forced entry, right?

naw, they just kicked through the wall down the hall. Just a couple pieces of 5/8" sheetrock, not even any insulation. To make matters even more insulting, they stole my alarm system too. [sigh]

Another vote for the Mossberg solution here.

If the problem is that bad, you need a motion activated pepper spray system.

https://www.stopthecrime.com/products.htm

repulsar would be my choice.

[adrenalynn]

I think you missed some of Mr. Ballard's points, ie. firefighters gaining entry, or law enforcement during a hostage situation (if it's that bad).

Regardless, I believe at this point we're just armchair quarterbacks here. Any advice is probably irresponsible - ie. potentially getting someone killed. My "safe" advice: hire a private security consulting firm to do a survey and advise. We don't have enough information. We don't know what the real threat is. We don't know the layout. We don't know the construction. We don't know the codes. We don't know the law.

Hire a pro. Be completely honest. Follow their advice to a 'T'. Or be prepared for the consequences which may very realistically include death or dismemberment.

[raimundo]

This is about securing a door, One very effective way to do that is to use chain on the inside. remember, a halligan can get between two rigid parts of door and frame and apply a great force, but when the rigid locks break and the door is still chained on the interior to parts of the structural wall, so that it still hangs in the doorway will slow down someone breaking in. And chain can resist explosive force breaking the locks.

[EDT]

The repulsar doesn't look like a very good defensive system, because that it's good for only one shot. Afterwards, you have to change the can, and the burglar will be ready next time with an A.B.C mask.

About regulations, I don't mind them when it's come to my life and property.

A chain inside the door is very ineffective. It can be broken in a matter of seconds, even if it's made of steel. Moreover, you can't use it while you're outside. When you're at home, the best thing is an internal deadbolt.

[raimundo]

Your comment on the chain inside the door is exactly what I think of those little chains they sell for this, mickey mouse.
But the chain arraingement I was speaking of is a different sort of chain and wouldn't be so conveniently positioned for someone outside to clip it. In fact it wouldn't be easy to clip at all.
your right though, its only operable from the inside.