Patenting/Selling a New Locksmith Tool?

[skeleton_keys]

Hi, all. I'm looking for advice about patenting or selling a new locksmith tool I've invented. I've been reading up on patent law and procedures, and been taking steps towards filing a provisional patent application, but writing the actual application has been flummoxing me.

For legal safety reasons, I can't tell you guys what the tool actually is, except that it's a simple but useful non-destructive bypass tool that doesn't exist on the market, as far as I can tell. I've done some heavy searching on Google Patents and other websites checking for prior art, and the only thing similar so far is a destructive tool that takes far more time and effort to achieve the same results, and leaves things permanently damaged afterward.

I've already heavily documented the invention process, built and successfully tested working prototypes. I can afford the provisional patent application, but can't afford a real patent right now, or the services of an attorney. I'm pretty much on a shoestring budget. I'm hoping a PPA will give me enough time to save for a real patent within the one year deadline.

I tried contacting Lockmasters just to ask their policies on submissions from outside inventors, but they haven't responded. And I saw this page at Lockpicks.com:
http://www.lockpicks.com/inventorspage.aspx
But I'm not sure if I should just trust a company like that.

Has anybody here had any experience with going through the patent process? Or with selling your idea to a locksmithing company? I'd welcome any advice. Thanks guys!

[mh]

If you are looking for a company to commercialize your idea, Adi Wendt might be the right guy:
http://www.zieh-fix.com/index_en.html

Cheers,
Michael

[Jaakko]

May I ask for what lock is your tool made for? That information would be helpful, as others probably know if there exists tools for that particular lock yet

[skeleton_keys]

Heh...sorry for being so secretive. After all I read about patent law and so forth, it gave me new-inventor-paranoia, so I'm trying to play it really close to the vest. It feels dumb in some ways, (I haven't even told my family any details! ) but I just want to be safe. I promise eventually you'll all get to hear about it one way or the other.

I did end up contacting Barrett Brockhage of Lockpicks.com, though, really nice guy...he's sending me a non-disclosure agreement so I can give them more details. We'll see how it goes! Cross your fingers for me! And thanks to both of you for your replies!

[aussielocky]

I would think very carefully before spending large amounts patenting such a tool.

After all, even if you do get a patent - what do you do if someone copies it ??? Pursing them for breach of patent costs even more money ......

And if someone produces a one off, not for commercial gain I don't think you can even begin an action.

Very few lock tools are patented for these and other reasons. The sales volumes are generally quite low which can add a lot of cost to the unit price per tool to cover the costs of the patent.

I know an inventor who started down this road patenting a design - he realised that it was a total waste of time and money, because at the end of the day he would never be able to afford to defend the patent.

Your much better off showing it to a manufacturer under a non-disclosure agreement to see if the tool can be produced and then come to an arrangement with them. One such maker that has such an agreement on their website is Peterson (I have no affiliation with them).

Good luck.

[skeleton_keys]

I've pretty much been reaching the same conclusions for myself...I doubt I'd ever make the cost of a patent back on sales. It's not going to take the world by storm or anything, it's just a clever little thing I hit upon a few weeks ago.

After I get the nondisclosure agreement and fill them in on the details, they said they'd consider the marketability of my device, so it pretty much all hinges on that. I don't even care about the money that much, I just want to be the guy that invented this thing.

Thanks for your advice!

[barbarian]

I know a guy that developed a tool for taking apart connecting rods in engines. Nice little tool and it prevents damage to the rod. He looked into a patent and was told to pretty much forget it. Yes the costs are huge, but what got him was the minimal amount that it has to be changed to be legal. I'm going by memory here, but I think it was 15%.

So he builds the tool and sells it through an engine rebuilder place. About six months later there is a much cheaper version with a quick action handle instead of a nice rotary screw. The quick action in this case is not an advantage. So if he had a patent, he would now have to decide if this constituted a significant (15% ?) change in the design. Lawyers get rich no matter what at $500 per hour with about 60 billable hours in a day.

Bottom line, the new copy of his tool is cheaper and looks cheaper. He still sells a bunch of his tools at regular intervals. The guys that want the cheap tool will probably just beat the engine apart with a hammer anyway.

[5thcorps]

I knew a guy who was very secretive about this gadget he made because he was looking into a patent for it. I found out what it was and told him to forget it. He found an attorney who basically ran him around for a year and telling him what a genius he was before sending him a bill for $15,000 and on top of that once he tried to pitch it to companies the technology was changing and therefore his "signal blocker" was irrevelant. If you think you got a good useful tool, the hell with a patent and try making a batch then going around pitching them to locksmiths and on here or also on ebay. You may very well be rather successful at it. Even if someone files a patent on it you still have YOUR NAME out there established as the maker of a quality product. Patents run out, so you might be better served to make a bunch to just test the waters before investing that large sum of money. Put it into making some, that will be the test if a patent is necessary. All my best

[5thcorps]

One last note, send a pm to Zeke, maybe he will try out your product and give you his opinion whether its a winner or not. I would definitely trust his opinion.

[barbarian]

One last note, send a pm to Zeke, maybe he will try out your product and give you his opinion whether its a winner or not. I would definitely trust his opinion.

This is a VERY good idea. Zeke won't rip off your idea and he won't steer you wrong.

[skeleton_keys]

Thanks guys, I'll do that!

Mr. Brockhage mysteriously disappeared after his initial enthusiasm over what I told him it could do, and I never even showed him the actual tool! Weird.

Off to see what Zeke thinks!

[MacGnG1]

there is a new show on discovery channel called "pitchmen" about this kind of thing.

from the few episodes i have seen, i would say that having a well packaged product and a good pitch is what would really help sell the idea. i guess ur not going to sell this thing on tv, just a few thoughts to consider.

[ElAbogado]

Hi, all. I'm looking for advice about patenting or selling a new locksmith tool I've invented. I've been reading up on patent law and procedures, and been taking steps towards filing a provisional patent application, but writing the actual application has been flummoxing me.

For legal safety reasons, I can't tell you guys what the tool actually is, except that it's a simple but useful non-destructive bypass tool that doesn't exist on the market, as far as I can tell. I've done some heavy searching on Google Patents and other websites checking for prior art, and the only thing similar so far is a destructive tool that takes far more time and effort to achieve the same results, and leaves things permanently damaged afterward.

I've already heavily documented the invention process, built and successfully tested working prototypes. I can afford the provisional patent application, but can't afford a real patent right now, or the services of an attorney. I'm pretty much on a shoestring budget. I'm hoping a PPA will give me enough time to save for a real patent within the one year deadline.

I tried contacting Lockmasters just to ask their policies on submissions from outside inventors, but they haven't responded. And I saw this page at Lockpicks.com:
http://www.lockpicks.com/inventorspage.aspx
But I'm not sure if I should just trust a company like that.

Has anybody here had any experience with going through the patent process? Or with selling your idea to a locksmithing company? I'd welcome any advice. Thanks guys!

** Nolo Press has a great self help book on patents and is written by a practicing attorney. It is available online and at Amazon.com.**

El Abogado

[tomcat]

Skeleton,

The points regarding the choice to patent or not by the other posters are valid. In many cases patents are obtained to protect a certain feature/benefit that would prevent others from using. However, if a significant improvement is made on another persons rendition, that could bypass your patent as I understand. Although I am sure bonafide legal arguments could be made if you have the money to go at it.

Turning over your idea may provide you instant "distribution" and marketing. Selling it on your own may provide you greater profit with lower sales. There are pros & cons on both.

Here is a few things I "learned" navigating the locksmith industry with some of my creations when it came to such things.

Be aware of the compensation should you choose to turn your idea over to others in this business. Know the difference between your "percentage" on each sale overall or a percentage based on cost to distribution. BIG DIFFERENCE. If you are being given a percentage such as 5%, be clear on what that is based upon. Should it be the price to distribution, then you will be making pennies compared to an overall sale price percentage. Remember, distribution can make returns so any initial sale could reverse itself. You can, if you must take such a low return ask for a "back end" compensation opportunity based on volume where you can get another percentage tier based on total sales within a period. This is a good thing if what you have is "hot".

Just be aware, once you turn over your idea, you lose control of the ability to decide how and when things are driven and marketed. For the most part you will be okay, if you have an item that can sustain itself. If however, your idea needs to be driven hard because of its life cycle, then you need to ensure what the terms of distribution will be unless you are given an upfront "product rights" settlement.

By asking for a cash payout upfront for someone to have control of your idea, you can pocket some money before any returns come in and this is an incentive for others to shake and move on your idea in order to get their investment back. Keep in mind this is all dependent upon who is manufacturing and marketing your idea.

If you do not have the money to get a patent and if it is attractive for another party to fund such a venture, then you may want to think about doing so with a "provision" that you are recognized as the inventor of the concept and that royalties in "perpetuity" can be transferable to another family member upon your demise.

You also need to decide if the idea you have will be turned over to someone with "exclusivity" and for how long. Another thing to consider, will the party funding your patent, distribution and marketing be allowed to set the price or are you expecting a Minimum Sales Price (MSP) not to be exceeded. Often your pricing will also protect your idea from being copied since others will not wish to spend the money to create their own rendition if you saturate the market aggressively and limit their sales potential.

So before you leap you need to consider some of these things. In short, are you looking for a "short run" on your products life or a "long run". Just remember nothing is forever unless you have a patented feature that is "unique" which can protected, sold off or which others simply do not wish to challenge or see no benefit in tooling up to knock off.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6824335.html

If I can help you, just ask.

[Rickthepick]

if its THAT good get a batch made up and start selling them from a website, good news travels fast and initially your will make good money

someone is always going to rip off a good idea whether its protected or not.

So keep shush until you can sell full force and enjoy it while it lasts