Possible the latest Master #3 have security pins?

[tehfrr]

So Ive been playing around with these locks and picks, and Ive managed to get an older master lock open (the one with the yellow coating), a master 130, a quickset cylinder, a Schlage cylinder with 4/5 pins (and spools replaced) as well as some other practice cylinders. The brand new master #3 though is giving me a hard time though. Ive only managed to rake it open a couple times, and SPP it once. Now I thought this was supposed to be pretty much the easiest lock ever.

The reason why I ask is because when Im SPPing it, sometimes it feel like I have all the pins set, the cylinder will rotate a few degrees and then it will stop. Also, when I have gentle tension on the lock and I push one of the pins, the lock wants to rotate back in the other direction. Furthermore, when I release tension and the pins drop back down, at least one of them sounds different (I cant tell which one).

I just find this odd that I have such a hard time opening this lock, and can repeatedly SPP and rake other locks which are supposed to be a little harder no problem. Im tempted to go back to where I bought it for another one to peel apart.

[tehfrr]

hrm guess not. My curiosity got the best of me so I took it apart. I don't understand why this piece of garbage was giving me a harder time than a Schlage cylinder with the same number of pins. Oddly it felt like the way security pins were described to me. Well, I suppose that's the problem with just reading tons of material, it still does not make up for good 'ol practice....

[adrenalynn]

Don't kick yourself. Limited keyway access with the really deep bitting on the last two pins and really high bitting on the from two pins. Likely either 3 or 4 was first in binding, and if you bind 4 too hard whilst 3 is still down it will trap your pick. And they have zero feedback. Some of these cheap locks are a PITA to SPP. They're just about the only locks I rake regularly because it's the cleanest way to get 'em open, imho. I SPP'd a plastic coated 130 today (Thanks, Unlocke, for the new lock! A challenge indeed!), and it took me longer than a new Brinks/American with 4 security pins the first time. [sigh] That said, I generally don't have as much of a problem with the larger 3/5 locks, but some have a funky biting like that and that's just the lock of the draw. The extremes are always tough on cheap locks.

[tballard]

Agreed, don't break yourself up. Some locks are what I call "moody" They just don't behave they way they should. I have a long screed about what I think actually happens involving plug motion which some day I'll actually write up, but until then, here is a teaser thought:

You've got a lock with really poor tolerances. When you tension a cylinder, you're not only going to displace it rotationally, but also front to back and at and angle as well. (The face of the plug generally pushed left, and the tail right...) This "skewing" of the lock is going to be limited by either hitting the wall of cylinder (in a good lock) or hitting a pin (in a not so good lock). Once you set the pin which is binding the plug will translate more, and in some cases that is going to feel like a spool or serration, because a change in skew can result in a noticeable change in rotation.

I have taken apart more than one lock absolutely positive I was going to find spools, serrations, or some super-duper-extra-special security pin to explain why I couldn't pick it, and been humbled to find plain old standard pins.

[tehfrr]

Thanks for the insight, what you two are saying makes a lot of sense.

Im also thinking I did better with the others such as the Schlage because I practice them all the time, almost every day whereas with the #3 I perceived it as a waste of time so Id only pick it up once in a while. Ill just have to buy a new one and throw it into the rotation

[yanksfan]

That looks like some of my #3's lol. Definitely no security pins though.

[tballard]

Im also thinking I did better with the others such as the Schlage because I practice them all the time, almost every day whereas with the #3 I perceived it as a waste of time so Id only pick it up once in a while. Ill just have to buy a new one and throw it into the rotation

The Schlage SC1 keyway took me longer than any other to learn to pick. Everyone has their personal challenges. Consistent practice seems to be the only way to keep those challenges at bay.

I only have one #3, but I pick it every single day. It's kinda nice actually, easy, familiar, and also serves as a guide when I'm "picked out". If I'm struggling with a lock for a while and making no headway, I'll pick up my trusty #3. If that gives me any trouble it's a sure sign that I'm tired, and no longer picking up the subtle (or not so subtle) clues which are key to opening any lock. (no puns intended in that last sentence)

One last reason to regularly pick a #3 is that I often teach other people to pick, and here in the US everyone has seen/used a #3. Being able to quickly and confidently pick such a well-known lock dependably in front of an audience is nice. (I love watching someone's eyes go wide when I open in in literally under 2 seconds via SPP or with a single pull of a rake)

[Akkell]

I must say I was happy to find this thread, because I've got this Master #3 that I just couldn't open. It acted exactly like what was described above and I was just sure there were some spools or something in there. All the Master #1 locks I've played with have practically fallen open, so I was starting to seriously doubt my skills. Well, I cleaned and oiled that lock up (which was at least half the problem) and went after it using a Bogota rake with carefully varied tension. A few minutes later it popped and has opened for me several times since.

Never ever ever give up.

[rrkss]

I have a Master #3 that I pick on a regular basis as well. The lock only responds to very light tension. Anything but mild tension and the lock jambs up and becomes hell to pick or even rake open. I use even less tension than what is needed to turn the key to open the lock.

[SnowyBoy]

Any 'budget' mass produced lock and you can guarentee it will be an over tension issue. Featherlite tension is the key

Try a deeper hook for those rear two stacks too, like rrkss said, they look high... and with the wards will be harder to get.

[raimundo]

before the tensor enters the keyway on a #3, it passes through the cap lamination of the bottom of the lock.
These laminations are very rough, you can see that from the outside of the lock,
examine the tensor you used on this lock, does it have a very rough area where it passed over the outer lamination,

look in the cylinder, at the bottom of the keyway, did the tensor erode a place to hang up against the cylinder wall? This can happen from too much picking and force.

Oil the lock, well lube lock then for those who cringe at oil.

[musicninja17]

You've got a lock with really poor tolerances. When you tension a cylinder, you're not only going to displace it rotationally, but also front to back and at and angle as well. (The face of the plug generally pushed left, and the tail right...) This "skewing" of the lock is going to be limited by either hitting the wall of cylinder (in a good lock) or hitting a pin (in a not so good lock). Once you set the pin which is binding the plug will translate more, and in some cases that is going to feel like a spool or serration, because a change in skew can result in a noticeable change in rotation.

it seems like i just had bad luck when i picked one up. The way the pins are set up coupled with the skewing thing makes mine more difficult then it should be i mean i've picked other #3's with no problem.....