New BS lock (Copy of the anti-bump M&C)

[Scott_93]

Got told about this a while back on another forum,
It appears to be a copy of the M&C anti-bump cylinder with 6 pins and 4 trap pins each side. If it is picked or bumped (in other words if the pins aren't at the right height) the trap pins will jump in underneath the lower pins locking it up. The only NDE way of attacking it that I can see is impressioning,
your thoughts?
CLICKY

And NO, I'm NOT related to this product in any way.

Scott.

[jos weyers]

if the springs under the trap pins are weak you could try a spinner after you picked it.
But if they build the lock properly then yes, impressioning is the (only) way to go.

[mhole]

What prevents you simply 'picking' the trap pins?

[datagram]

What prevents you simply 'picking' the trap pins?

Trap pins usually aren't easy to manipulate because the springs used to retain them are extremely strong. When they fire, it is very hard to move them; drilling or disassembly of the lock is required.

dg

[mhole]

cheers - that makes sense, and is pretty much what I expected.

[mcm757207]

Anyone tried the old dental floss trick? On some locks to avoid the use of a plug spinner you take a bunch of wax dental floss and pack it really tight into the keyway, the idea being that it will hold the pins in place when you turn the plug past where the drivers are. I wonder if that would work in this situation, or if the springs are just too strong.

[datagram]

Anyone tried the old dental floss trick? On some locks to avoid the use of a plug spinner you take a bunch of wax dental floss and pack it really tight into the keyway, the idea being that it will hold the pins in place when you turn the plug past where the drivers are. I wonder if that would work in this situation, or if the springs are just too strong.

Barry of TOOOL NL tried this against the M&C and it did not work (stated in one of his presentations from way back). Might work against the knock off, though.

dg

[jos weyers]

Dental floss didn't work on the M&C because of the huge force of the springs. Even with a plugspinner the lock wouldn't turn beyond the trap pins.

A couple of weeks ago Barry found the lock and diceded to impression it. No supprises here; it opened like a charm.

idea:
once you pick the lock, decoding the lock must be do-able ?
building a key with the know code would open the lock non distructive.
Still i think imprsessioning would be the way to go.

[Solomon]

I'm not familiar with these trap pins, but my first thought was that if you inserted a key blank (filed down to the spine) after the pins were set, it would retain the trap pins allowing you to rotate the plug fully. This is assuming that they fire after there has been a considerable rotation of the plug though, which I guess is not the case.

Are there any diagrams or animations which show exactly how these pins work? Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Scott_93]

They fire at about +/- 15 , and it has to be the CORRECT height on every pin.

Scott.

[greyman]

I'm not familiar with these trap pins, but my first thought was that if you inserted a key blank (filed down to the spine) after the pins were set, it would retain the trap pins allowing you to rotate the plug fully. This is assuming that they fire after there has been a considerable rotation of the plug though, which I guess is not the case.

Are there any diagrams or animations which show exactly how these pins work? Where there's a will, there's a way.

There's a write-up in my book in the section on inline pin-tumbler locks. There are some pictures in there. Click on mu signature for more info.

[lockey1963]

there are a number of these around, fullex make one tagged as abc cylinder , it is extremely difficult to pick open once fired, but once fired the trap pins pick back to locked position simply enough and will spin past the trap pins.

The problem with many of the trap pin cylinders on sale at present is once trap pins fire the key wont work on the other side of the door, leaving potential fire hazzard , better makes have included a panic clutch so even when fired key can still be used on the other side in a case of emergency.

[Rickthepick]

I have picked one of these bs locks i think its made my mila.

easy enough to pick but once trapped with those needle pins its very difficult to untrap it.
you can release it by 'picking' it again out of that position.

it will lock up again 3 more times through the before 180degrees, 180, and just after 180 but these are easilly overcome using a flat pick to push the protruding pins out the keyway,

you shouldnt need to rotate the keyway through full 360 as the lock will usually be open by then.