Maximizing feedback through technique & pick design.

[Viggs]

I read something interesting in the LLS section on picking yesterday. The author suggested applying tension with the fore-finger instead of the thumb because it had a lot more sensitivity. This made me remember all the videos I've seen of outstanding lockpickers who were, in fact, using their fore-fingers! Previously, I had never given it much thought, so I developed a habit of using my thumb. And I intend to experiment with new ways of applying tension from now on.

This got me thinking about other techniques that may improve feedback. I tend to hold my pick like a pencil using the first three fingers while resting my ring finger against the face of the cylinder for forward/back stability. And I usually level off a ward. What techniques work best for you?

Another aspect of this question (maximizing feedback) concerns pick design. Up to this point, I've mainly used commercially bought picks. But I will definitely be making a set in the near future, and I'm wondering what design elements make your picks most responsive. So far, my experience has been counter-intuitive. For example... I would assume that a thin pick-shank would give the best feedback. But my LAB picks and my Falle Safe picks (both very thin sets) give such miserable feedback that I never use them. Ironically... my bulky southord picks give me feedback that I can feel in my wrists! And I definitely prefer a flat (rather than round/pointed) end on my hooks/feelers.

I noticed in the "homebrew hall of fame" that various members obviously had different preferences. What do you consider ideal in a pick design? What design qualities have given you the best feedback?

[LocksmithArmy]

I deffinatly feel using the fore-finger gives more feedback, as well as controll. with spool pins i use such little tension spplied with the fore-finger, probalbly not even as much as my finger waighs... my thumb would not have this much controll...

i believe placing your finger holding the pick on the cylinder gives more feedback but sometimes i find this not comfortable so i cannot. i find comfort more important in many situations causeif you cant work or move in a particular direction you brobably wotn get it regaurdless of feedback

i havnt made picks yet so i cannot tell you which provied more feedback but in the near future when i do ill let you know how i feel about it

[raimundo]

the diamond pick can be made with very steep slopes, /\ and this makes the cam effect of the slopes less efficient, which has the effect of causing it to hang up a bit more than one with effective cams. If this picktip and pickshaft are well sanded to eliminate any false feels that may happen, the increased inefficiency of the cam slope can cause greater feed back.

a diamond pick can affect only one pin at a time if that is what you intend, but more often, it is affecting two pins, often with one riding the down slope while another is on the other side of the peak riding up. If you put some pins in a plug and just move a diamond pick especially a steep diamond, you can watch this happening as the pins come up to the shearline.

You can find a position to hold the diamond pick that will satisfy the shearline for both pins. ..................a bogota rake does this X3 six pins riding up and down three peaks. It kind of breaks down the lock into three two pin locks.

[Viggs]

I havnt made picks yet so i cannot tell you which provied more feedback but in the near future when i do ill let you know how i feel about it

Cool, let's trade notes. Because I'll be making a set of my own pretty soon!

You can find a position to hold the diamond pick that will satisfy the shearline for both pins. ..................a bogota rake does this X3 six pins riding up and down three peaks. It kind of breaks down the lock into three two pin locks.

I've read nothing but great things about these Bogotas. And I've totally neglected raking for SPP. I'll have to research your posts for design info and add a couple to my set.

[LocksmithArmy]

Oh my goodness.

I did the same thing, I never really raked much. then I got raimundos bogotas... let me just say amazing.

I only got to play with em for about an hour before I had to pack to go home and I was afraid custome would have taken them so I left em. but I am looking forward to coming back to pick much more.

definatly recomend getting some

[Xarragon]

I recently created a new tension wrench, and contrary to my earlier ones which were made from rather springy hacksaw blades I made this from steel rod, about 4 mm or so. I havn't decided weather it is better or worse yet, but I must say there is a significant difference in feel from the thinner wrenches. You can feel every single little imperfection inside the lock surfaces, but it is very hard to apply light pressure compared to the lighter wrenches.

I am still far, far to unexperienced in order to give any advice, but if you make your own equipment and don't like your flimsy wrenches I say give it a try; they were very fast and easy to make with a bench grinder.

I'll post some pictures if anyone is interested.

[Madhatta3]

Oh my goodness.

I did the same thing, I never really raked much. then I got raimundos bogotas... let me just say amazing.

I only got to play with em for about an hour before I had to pack to go home and I was afraid custome would have taken them so I left em. but I am looking forward to coming back to pick much more.

definatly recomend getting some

Customs where? Could have mailed them, and push comes to shove coulda tried and they would have just told you to toss them. I brought 2 8" ka-bars back from iraq in checked luggage =).

[LocksmithArmy]

oh no this was just coming home for R&R and I was not going to have any checked luggage... just one backpack so as soon as I landed I was off to see my kids... now that I am back I have played with them many of times... and they are still amazing.

[Madhatta3]

I gotcha thought you had said you had thrown em away. Well alls well ends well. Hope you had fun on R&R =P.

[samfishers]

Well for me.. it has always been my fore finger which I used to apply tension... I have never work different form that.

And as for pick designs... southord picks works fine for me... (I have never used anything else.. so I can't really judge)

[unlisted]

...

Please remove the weblink from your signature. Weblinks are not allowed. Please see rule # 4.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=715

Thanks

[Schuyler]

Forefinger, yes.

For picks that maximize feedback, I can tell you the greatest hits from my personal collection. Rai's Bogotas, of course, were the first rake that taught me you can get legit feedback while raking. The bogota is the first tool to go into a lock for me, and gives a quick & dirty, though ultimately accurate, topography of the interior of the lock. There is no added handle and it's polished to a mirror finish. These things combine for maximum feedback.

If you think of picking a lock as having a long distance phone call with the pins, then every imperfection is static on the line. The better polished the pick, the clearer your conversation with the pins.

To that end, finish even your commercial ones. Get some sand paper and spend a while in front of the TV making them shine a bit.

Then there were LN21's picks, which were the first time I had ever seen an undercut on the blade near the handle. Now, opinions vary on undercuts, I've heard some describe them as too "sloppy" but for me they add an even finer level of detail in the feedback. An undercut isn't appropriate for every sort of pick, but they work beautifully on Deforests & various hooks.

ToolyMcGee has made some picks with a twist in the blade right at the handle which, for me, accomplishes the same idea. Additionally, he has really perfected a handle design pioneered by Criminalhate which is one of my very favorites. You wrap the tang of the pick with a small wire, then coat/heatshrink the whole thing. This makes for an extremely comfortable, rounded handle, but with very little given up in the way of feedback. Typically when you increase comfort you, by default, decrease feedback. Ultimate feedback comes from a plain, no added handle, pick. However, the wire transmits the feeling so well, that you get an incredibly comfortable pick, with only minimal loss in feel.

It only gets more intricate from here, ergonomics, sanding your fingertips (neither practice I subscribe to) and various other things. But, yeah, get your hands on some home made picks. The homebrew community on LP101 is likely the best thing about this place.

[raimundo]

thanks schuyler, for saying the homebrew guys are a benefit to the site, I have long suggested that there be a forum/topic for making picks but it was never considered worthy of one until there were so may posts in so many threads that now the reason to not have a "lockpicks hand made" forum is because the topic exists and is scattered among the 30,ooo topics all over the site.

as if starting a topic for this would not be filled with new posts and when a mod feels that something posted elsewhere needs to be moved to the new topic, they could do it

A topic/forum for handmade picks would actually be very encouraging to the people who are doing it and for the people who may be starting out doing it.