Question regarding new Yale BS lock

[Solomon]

Before I get into my question, here is the lock I'm referring to:


I bought one of these today because I remembered craneman's thread where he stripped one down, and I wanted to see what serrated drivers were like. Haven't picked it yet, but I'm getting there. The hi-lo pin stacks are giving me a headache, and the keyway is a bit more restrictive than the others I've worked with before, but I'll get it in time. No questions as far as that goes... but there's something curious about the cylinder, and I wanted to ask what the reason for this is.

I'm concerned about these indentations, which are on top of the cylinder. The row of pins is indicated at the bottom, for some reason... any other lock I've seen, these markings are always at the same side where you see the pins in the keyway (ie. top of rim cylinders/bottom of euros). And where you usually see the row of pins, there is this instead:


It complies with BS EN 1303:2005 standard, police preferred specification and all that jazz. All the British Standards website tells me is that it has 6 pins. Doesn't say anything about trap pins or additional security features of any kind; from this I assume it'll be fine to pick it. Just wanted to clarify with you guys before I potentially break the thing. If it does have trap pins, I'll just install it on my door.

Thanks in advance, everyone!

[Jaakko]

Those pins in the picture looks like drill protection, meaning they are hardened steel pins to prevent normal HSS-bits from entering the shearline or something

[mhole]

Yep, those are anti drill pins. They're hardened pins which protect the shearline from drilling, but they're fixed, and don't do anything to complicate or prevent picking.

[Solomon]

Happy days, will post a pic once I get it picked then. Fingers crossed...

[Solomon]

Apologies for the double post, but I just got it. Woohoo!



I had to pick it counter clockwise, though. This is the perfect excuse to make my first plug spinner... slightly disappointed in myself since my SPP skills leave a lot to be desired, but I'm still happy that I at least got it open. Now I just need to apply what I learned from it and see if I can get consistent.

I also want to reiterate my question about the pins. As you can see in the following picture, the line of dimples is at the bottom of the cylinder... the pins are at the top of the keyway, so why is it like this? I'm curious about why those dimples are on the opposite side to where they normally are... another anti-drill feature? Also, does this mean if I rotate it to 180 degrees it will get completely stuck?



Thanks again guys.

[Jaakko]

I also want to reiterate my question about the pins. As you can see in the following picture, the line of dimples is at the bottom of the cylinder... the pins are at the top of the keyway, so why is it like this? I'm curious about why those dimples are on the opposite side to where they normally are... another anti-drill feature? Also, does this mean if I rotate it to 180 degrees it will get completely stuck?

The lock cylinders pins and springs are loaded through them and then the plug inserted. The key pins will fall off from those holes if you rotate 180 degrees and that will screw up things if you then turn back to "reset" position: The drivers & springs will enter the plug bores and that was it, end of fun.

[LocksmithArmy]

they make repinning a very simple process though. I love locks that have these holes because I have yet to get aplug follower

[exspook]

simple plug follower made from a suitable piece of wooden dowel may help..

down the local Souk for you I think LOL

Dave

[LocksmithArmy]

It's more fun to use a tension wrench when I repin...
Or a bobby pin.
Just kidding, one day I'll get me a real set but 'till then I'm content with my tensor.

[Solomon]

The lock cylinders pins and springs are loaded through them and then the plug inserted. The key pins will fall off from those holes if you rotate 180 degrees and that will screw up things if you then turn back to "reset" position: The drivers & springs will enter the plug bores and that was it, end of fun.

Hmm, alright. If the key pins fall into those holes though, surely if I tip the cylinder upside down they'll go back into the keyway again? And if the drivers click into the groove aswell, it's just a matter of pushing them out with a tensioner as normal... I hope. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, cos I'm scared of rotating this too much and I really wanna try a plug spinner on it.

Anyone have a cutaway diagram of one of these? I'm no for taking it apart just yet, I like to know exactly what's going on inside before I do that. Any other cylinder is fine, I just havent had any experience with these ones.

[Jaakko]

If the key pins fall into those holes though, surely if I tip the cylinder upside down they'll go back into the keyway again?

Yes, the worst is that you have to figure out what pins go where after you have found them from the floor

And if the drivers click into the groove aswell, it's just a matter of pushing them out with a tensioner as normal...

Mmm yes and no. Yes, they can be pushed out, but not with a tensioner. Comb like tool would be the solution. OR you could just lift the drivers until springs are out of the plug and rotate the plug a little to get it away and then repin the whole thing.

[Solomon]

Hmm... I'm having a slow day today, I still don't see why. I'll take your word for it though.

I'm gonna have a proper hunt and see if I can find a cutaway diagram of one, cos I can't put things into perspective at the moment.

[LocksmithArmy]

If the key pins fall into those holes though, surely if I tip the cylinder upside down they'll go back into the keyway again?

Yes, the worst is that you have to figure out what pins go where after you have found them from the floor

if the key is still in the lock putting the pins back in it in the right order is not a problem...

worst case senerio, trial and error.

[mhole]

Those holes are covered by a thin piece of brass shim. You can spin the lock 360 degrees without any problems, unless you remove the plug retainer clip and slide the shim out of position. This is essential on UK 1109 cylinders because a number of older locks used with these cylinders require a 360 rotation of the key to deadlock the spring latch.

To pin up a Yale cylinder like that, put the springs in place, and then slide the plug into position upside down, but don't push it home. Drop the driver pins into place one at a time, pushing them into the bible with a pick, then sliding the plug over them. Once all the driver pins are in, the plug will be lined up with the holes in the bottom of the cylinder, and you can simply drop in the key pins, then slide the shim into place, fit the retainer clip and rotate the plug to the locked position.

[Solomon]

Those holes are covered by a thin piece of brass shim. You can spin the lock 360 degrees without any problems, unless you remove the plug retainer clip and slide the shim out of position. This is essential on UK 1109 cylinders because a number of older locks used with these cylinders require a 360 rotation of the key to deadlock the spring latch.

To pin up a Yale cylinder like that, put the springs in place, and then slide the plug into position upside down, but don't push it home. Drop the driver pins into place one at a time, pushing them into the bible with a pick, then sliding the plug over them. Once all the driver pins are in, the plug will be lined up with the holes in the bottom of the cylinder, and you can simply drop in the key pins, then slide the shim into place, fit the retainer clip and rotate the plug to the locked position.

Thanks a million, I thought I was going crazy for a while there. The lockie I spoke to today said the same thing, it should rotate 360 degrees without the key no problem unless the circlip is removed.