Question about some stuff inside a Medeco

[Rift]

Before I make my post I was just wondering if its okay to post a question about a Medeco Cylinder in this forums. My post would include a few pictures of the inside of one.

I know the advanced forum indicated questions about Medeco locks going there so I figured Id ask first before posting.

Rift

[JK_the_CJer]

Pictures/breakdowns of advanced locks in the public forums is good to go; just no discussions of defeating them. That said, Medeco was "declassified" sometime last year because of all the friendly and public attention they were getting from pickers and researchers. In the meantime, here are a couple of my breakdowns; they might help ID the bits that confuse ya:

Classic: http://theamazingking.com/images/locks/arx/medeco.html
m3: http://theamazingking.com/images/locks/m3/m3.html

[Rift]

Oh wow that's exactly what I was looking for! I was gifted a Medeco Cylinder (looking at your breakdowns its a Medeco Classic) today that was in pretty bad shape (mostly very dirty) several of the pins were stuck, no key anymore, and the lock was just a general mess. Me being me I quickly sat down took it apart and begun to clean everything. I haven't had much exposure to Medeco Cylinders yet so naturally when I took it apart I found a few pieces that I most certainly wasn't familiar with.

Your breakdown showed me all but 1 piece I was confused about. When I took the plug out at the very front there are 2 C shaped pieces that kind of attach on the sides of the cylinder. I was curious what these are for? Looking at the pins you described it seems the one I have has 2 ARX pins and 2 Mushroom pins.

Hopefully I can get a key made for it later today, then the next step is learning to pick it!

Thanks for your awesome pics and explanations they were a great help in better understanding the lock.

Rift

[datagram]

Those are anti-drilling inserts that should be inserted in the cylinder at the 12 and 3 o'clock positions to protect the pin stacks and sidebar, respectively.

dg

[Rift]

Ahh I see thank you =) I did come across another thread here just now after looking a bit more and found a Makeup and Breakup of a Medeco Cylinder. Time to read that through and through.

Rift

[Rift]

Mmmm looking closer and reading more of the info on your site JK the pins I thought were ARX definitely aren't. Just came across the section on your website about the pin upgrades too and saw your picture comparison.

Rift

[datagram]

Though it is a bit sparse at the moment, http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_Biaxial may also be of use. I'll get around to adding Original/Classic, M3, and Bilevel by the end of the month. Scouts honor!

dg

[Rift]

Soo much information! I love it hehe. So far I'm getting how the lock functions I think whats confusing me the most right now tho is the names of the Classic and Biaxial. Does the Classic not have rotating pins, or do all the Medecos have them. My lock looks like the classic but when i look at the pins I can definitely see the degree differences in the notches on the pins. So I'm assuming these do have to rotate so are those Biaxial pins or am I just mixing everything up?

Anyways time for some sleep ill pick this up tomorrow. Thanks a ton to the both of you for all the great info.


Rift

[SnowyBoy]

Whilst this thread is here, anyone know why some biaxials have a gold disc in only one of the stacks?

I thought perhaps it was something to do with the hair pick bypass? But then it could still be performed wit that disc there. Is it perhaps a control disc or something?

[JK_the_CJer]

Soo much information! I love it hehe. So far I'm getting how the lock functions I think whats confusing me the most right now tho is the names of the Classic and Biaxial. Does the Classic not have rotating pins, or do all the Medecos have them. My lock looks like the classic but when i look at the pins I can definitely see the degree differences in the notches on the pins. So I'm assuming these do have to rotate so are those Biaxial pins or am I just mixing everything up?

Anyways time for some sleep ill pick this up tomorrow. Thanks a ton to the both of you for all the great info.


Rift

Every variety of Medeco I'm aware of except the "m3 BiLevel" (not be confused with the old and cool original BiLevel) and KeyMark uses rotating pins and a sidebar. The design difference between Classic and Biaxial (along with several smaller changes), is the pin tips. In Classic, they are centered on the axis of rotation. In Biaxial, the pin tip can be found slightly forward or slightly aft of the pin's axis (hence "biaxial"). This does not increase pick resistance remarkably but does allow more key differs and a new patent.

[raimundo]

those half moon drill breakers can sometimes be difficult to keep in position while reassembling the lock, the trick is to stick them in place with a dab of vaseline petroleum jelly.
look closely at your side bar, it works differently when put in backwards, notice that the back edge is not perfectly symetrical, but has the v edge off center.
You can see that the groove for this edge is not at precisely three oclock, but more like 3:01 oclock.

[datagram]

I think whats confusing me the most right now tho is the names of the Classic and Biaxial. Does the Classic not have rotating pins, or do all the Medecos have them.

The difference between the two is that the Classic/Original has pins that sit in the center of the cut, but the pins rotate to the same three positions (L-left,C-center,R-right).

In the Biaxial the pins rest either "before or after" the center of the cut. Fore and aft pins have their own designations:

Fore: K-left, B-center, Q-right
Aft: M-left, D-center, S-right

If you compare the two types of keys this should be real easy to spot. BOTH use rotation, though.

(This is stuff I need to revise and add to the wiki page...I know!)

dg

[rrkss]

As far as picking, I find the biaxial easier to pick than the medeco classic. The steeper slant on biaxial pins make it easier to grab the pin with your hook and rotate it. Other than that, they pick about the same and give the same feedback. Search some of my older posts for more information on how to go about picking these locks. As a hint, use a slimline hook for pin rotation.

jk also wrote an excellent article about a year back in the Pick-Fu section of this site which I encourage you to read.

[Rift]

So I went and got the lock re keyed today. I came home took it apart and looked at the pins. Judging by all the pictures and diagrams you guys have provided me with the pins all have there tips in the center. Not like the Biaxial ones that vary for and aft. So I'm all clear on the difference with that now. I was a little sad to see that he took out both the mushrooms but didn't put back any type of security pin so there all regular ones now. Also I was under the impression that the key for this lock would be the round one shown in JK's website not the big square one that I got. Did they just get rid of that design and now only use the big square ones?

Thanks rrkss ill see if I can dig up some of that information.

Rift

[rrkss]

The easiest way to identify if the pin is classic or biaxial is to look at the top of the pin. If the little ledge to stop rotation is 90 degrees from the sidebar slot, its a medeco classic. If the ledge is 180 degrees or directly opposite the sidebar slot, the pin is a biaxial. You can also look at the face of the lock for the biaxial markings.