Two tension wrenches?

[WolfSpring]

Did a search couldn't find anything:

I was watching you tube on 5200 series picking and I noticed a lot of people have two tension wrenches in a lock, whats that all about?

[KokomoLock]

How about a link to one of the videos you are refering to. I have not seen anyone use 2 tension wrenches at the same time. Sometimes people use top of the keyway tension, cant pick the lock and switch to bottom tension, thinking maybe the tension bar at the top of the keyway is blocking the first pin so they switch to bottom tension and pick the first pin.

[Schuyler]

Sure it wasn't a wishbone tension wrench that puts tension on the top and bottom of the lock at the same time?

[WolfSpring]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNeTXbC7Xck couple other times i've seen it too and heard it mentioned

[LocksmithArmy]

I have never done this but I have seen it on this site before.

The reason bottom tension does not work well with the 5200 is because your tensor rubs the cylinder wall. so people will put one tensor in and use another tensor to hold the first tensor up off the cylinder wall. only one is the actual tensor the other holds the tensor in place...

That is what I have seen some people doing on this site. They had good pictures too I wish I could remember who or what thread I read it.

[Schuyler]

I'm flummoxed, never seen anything like it. Would be interested to see it more clearly / in person. Very interesting.

[raimundo]

On the american padlocks, the bottom tensor can hang up on the drill breaker that it passes through before the cylinder, you can find scratched on the tensor blade to indicate this, these scratches would also tend to bite into a cylinder wall in another lock where there is no standoff room and the roughed up part enters the lock.
The same thing can happen with laminated padlocks where the tensor rubs on the cap lamination before entering the cylinder.

I have occasionally use two tensors on locks that are being difficult especially with the move from a false set spool to the shear line.

bottom tension is most convenient in most locks, as it is out of the way of the pick
top tensors do not dig into cylinder walls, and they do not put the same biash on the way the pins are bound, with bottom tension, the tolerances in the lock are set in a certain way by the force, as if the plug were stuck on the tensor blade, this will tend to tilt the plug in the cylinder so that it is tight at the near end bottom, where the tensor is, but further along the plut, this tilts toward the opposite wall of the cylinder, and this tends to make some part of the shear more binding and more pickable while in another part of the shear line something the opposite is happening all within the perameters of the lock tolerances, the space between plug and cylinder, and the space between pins and the drilled holes they are in.

if you simply put a plug on the blade of a tensor and hold it in the air, notice that the far end will have the longer arc of radius in movement. the tensor tends to keep things set hard near the open end of the keyway but further back, the plug can wiggle more on the blade of the tensor.

top tension is hard to keep in the lock, some have approached this by making tensor blades that fit tight in each different keyway,
generally, top tension is much closer to the axis of the plug and does not bind the plug in a particular place like the front of the plug. it will bind differently from a bottom tensor.
to the extent that the plug can move a bit in the tolerances, and this movement is part of the whole picking phenom, that is based on tolerances and possible movements of all the various parts. if you have a pin set on the shear step at the deepest pin, this is the wiggley end of the plug as all tension is applied at the front, and the length of the blade on the tensor does not stop this, as force concentrates on the points of initial contact at the front of the lock. further along the blade, you get the flexy movement of thin metal that is able to flex and waggle out on the end of the blade.

Using two tensors is a way to try to keep from dropping set pins while shifting between two different tensions, especially when in 'reverse' from a spool being set

I have not seen the youtube videos, but yesterday, I was looking for those videos of sentry safes being slapped or dropped open and could not find many of them that once were there, I tried a lot of different seach terms, but could not locate the number of them that once were there, there were however propaganda videos from some of the makers of these unsafes, including the gunsafe that can be dropped or slapped open and the manufacturers shills were really impressed with the secuity of what other videos are making people laugh at. the sentry safe that fell out the back of a packed car and popped open, the gun safe that is put on its side and only slightly dropped pops open very easily and the shills touting it are just a couple of videos away.

[raimundo]

re previous post, biash is a typo, read bias. and plut is plug. another typo. I make typos and this toshiba keyboard also makes its own. especially when a key fails to produce a letter.

[WolfSpring]

Was trying to emulate the two tensors. I got an american SL10 with a messed up top keyway and can't get a bite in the upper keyway. But if I use the Southord tensors on the bottom they don't give enough room for a pick. I have some made of sweeper bristles, but they either slip and bend or don't put enough pressure to bind the lock. I don't have access to a wiper insert at this time. I have a filed down pen clip that fits just right, but i can't get leverage due to the shortness of it. only options I can think of are to:

1. File down a tensor to fit in the top keyway below the messed up part, or try to thiken, or double up a tensor, put a lip on it maybe
2. File down a SouthOrd tensor to fit in the bottom keyway
3. Get mad and throw the lock on the ground till I can't do anything with it then destroy it with pliers...

Any suggestions?



BTW this is a lock I found outside a container yard with the shackle cut the pins still seem to function, cleaned it up a little and would like to get it open. Was going to use it for a practice lock, but now I'm probably going to just get the pins and springs out and use them for my other practice lock thats not so beat up.

[rrkss]

I'm one of those that use two tension wrenches. I've noticed that whenever the lock sets or false sets, my tension wrench jammed up in the ward at the bottom of the keyway preventing me from proceeding further. I am a picker who prefers bottom of keyway tension since its easier to keep the wrench in the lock. To solve this problem I put a slimline wrench into the ward to support my larger tension wrench that I use for the tensioning. I can then tension like normal without wrench slippage. Here is an image of what I do, hopefully that clears things up.

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[WolfSpring]

Clears it up thats for sure, now how the heck i get my pick in there is a whole nother story lol. Thank you. So do I need a thinner pick if I can't put it in. or maybe I'm doing it wrong?

[Schuyler]

Interesting. So could this be solved by a stepped tension wrench? I mean, I think I'm getting my head around it, but I figured a stepped wrench will avoid some of the jamming problems to begin with, no? Sorry if I'm just being ignorant.

[Schuyler]

Sorry for the double post:

I do understand the desire to switch tension throughout the picking process, I have often found on some locks with decent tolerances & bittings, that I need to start with light top tension, then at some later point in the process move to a heavier bottom tension. I'm rare to Americans, though, so perhaps a careful swap mid-pick is more difficult. I know they tend to be pretty fickle locks.

[rrkss]

The bottom tension wrench is a very slim wrench. It happens to be the Southord slimline tension tool (http://www.lockpickshop.com/TW-11.html), it lies flat under the ward and allows the standard wrench to push against it preventing the jamming. It should not get in the way of picking the lock as it does not take up any more usable picking space given its placement in the lock. If you look in my photo, you will see plenty of space under the pins for the placement of tools. I even have the short hook I used to pick that lock in the photo and the key with the low/high bitting to show how much manueverability I needed to pick the lock.

Schuyler I don't understand exactly what you mean by a stepped tension wrench.

Switching tension wrenches mid pick with Americans are possible but only after you have it in a false set. You just need to be very careful not to reset the lock while you do it.

[thelockpickkid]

I have never had this happen to me on any American Lock, I have no idea why you guys have trouble with the wrench slipping, I make my own tension wrenches though, maybe this is why? I have used my wrenches in several different American Locks and don't have any problems.