Impressioning quesiton?

[WolfSpring]

First, if this is advance, I am sorry I didn't see anything about it either way, if so please let me know and delete this. If it is not.

I took an attempt at impressioning today and ran into difficulty. I started by using a sharpie and filing the areas the rubbed off, after a few filedowns I noticed it was not losing any more color so I took a key and lined it up to clean up my cuts, this did nothing, so I tried a couple other methods of coating and started geting scrapes again, and again filed down the scrapes, after a while I noticed my key was starting to resemble a bumb key. This is where I thought to myself, should of attempted this with a known lock and key and not a lock I have yet to even pick so I could see my progress in comparisson to the known key, yeah newbie mistake... Anyway, As I'm impressioning will the cuts stay level with each other until each one comes to depth? What I mean is if I'm going and first pin 3 needs filed, then 4,5,3,2 then they are all level, then pin 3 starts to scrape and the same thing for the next few rounds, the cuts seem to stay even as I go further, I'm thinking once a certain cut gets to depth it will stop scraping, or is it possible I'm doing it wrong?

Again if this is advance, my appologies, though I don't see how it would be.

Thank you.

[Eyes_Only]

It might just be your lock and level of experience with impressioning. When I started out trying to impression a Schlage lock it did seem like all the spaces were marking and were indicating to be filed down so that every space kept coming out kinda level with each other.

What kind of file are you using? Using a poor quality file like a needle file you can get at a hardware store doesn't leave a clean enough surface to be able to see the impression marks clearly. I use a round Grobet swiss file for the actual filing but I first prep the key blank surface by lightly running a small warding file over the surface to remove the major imperfections and then giving it a nice smooth flat finish by "sanding" with those emery boards you can get at any drug store. This helps me to see the impression marks better on the key blade right from the start.

I hope I understood you correctly.

[WolfSpring]

I understand what you are saying, and yes I do lack experience and I am using a cheap file, but the key is coming out smooth, but my thought process on this is whats buggin me. It's like the first go round I made 1 cut to each of the pin positions starting at 3, after I cut all to 1(which I'm throwing out 1 as a depth GUESS from 1-8/9, still learning that) and then 3 marked again and it did the same, 3,4,5,2,1 for marking to a depth of 2, then again for a depth of 3(again guessing on the depth as they go further) I mean it kinda makes sense in my head as you go furtherdown less binding is happening on the height of hte pin opening up the other pins to bind and mark. I just wanted to make sure this was normal, or if I'm just out in left field.

[Eyes_Only]

What brand of lock are you trying to impression?

[WolfSpring]

American

[Eyes_Only]

As in American padlock? If it is then I would have to say that those locks are really really really tricky to impression. I've only managed to impression one of them using only two key blanks and it took me about week and all the other times were a epic fail. A Kwikset or even a Schlage for that matter would be much easier if you're just starting out on impressioning.

[FarmerFreak]

You might try impressioning a master #3 to learn. They are a good place to start with picking and impressioning .

I would consider the Kwiksets and Schlages to be the very next step up. If only because there will be more filing (larger blanks=more filing).

I'm pretty sure that Americans are difficult because of the serrations on the key pins. And they really are quite difficult,....without the use of other tricks (like taking them apart).

[Eyes_Only]

And I'd also arm myself with like 150 of the M1 key blanks so there would be plenty of blanks to burn through.

[WolfSpring]

Good to know this stuff, thank you. Problem is I have american key blanks, tons of them, I think our unit used to do key copying, and I have tons of american locks too. My wife is sending a quickset Deadbolt, maybe I'll buy a 10 pack of blanks for it and atempt that. Or one of my four pin master locks with no security. It was more of a I got bored and had the blanks so I'd give it a try. Thanks again.

[thelockpickkid]

I have tried to impression several times, but didn't do any good, I have been told and I have yet to try, but I have some older yale wafer padlocks, I heard that these are good to learn with because the wafers make better marks for impressioning, if you could find a wafer lock, it might be a good start.

[ToolyMcgee]

If you can find a Master lock DG padlock, that would be better. They are cobalt laminate bodied padlocks, almost the same color as new brass, and those are 5 pin military pads that take m4 blanks. The problem with the american's, is they have serrated keypins. Any security driver pin is not going to be much of a factor, but the serrations on the keypins cause false marks that are tricky to work past for experienced pro's. American's are one of the few padlocks that have them.

I say go for a lock without knowing the bitting, because it's a real rush the first time. If you've seen the key, and miss it, it can be a true crushing blow. You can do it, if you see the marks. File them, follow them. I started by chasing the strongest mark. It will switch, and then chase that one. Clear the blank with very light strokes every so often to remove marks which have built up over 5, 10 or more passes. They may start to look good, but don't be tempted. It can be done with a crap file, if you can see through the tool marks. Pick one, and follow. Takes some good eyes, and sometimes sandpaper, definately alot more time. A decent file helps alot, but patience is as important as determination. See, file, wiggle/tap, and follow.

Wafer locks are different, but are so much more forgiving. If you can find one, do like LPKidd said and try it. Knife blade your key first, but it will be easier. Good luck

-Tooly

[Wizer]

When those of you who can cut keys to code impression a lock, do you cut the key to next bitting depth when shown a mark on the blank, or do you do it all manually filing the blank?

[Tyler J. Thomas]

When those of you who can cut keys to code impression a lock, do you cut the key to next bitting depth when shown a mark on the blank, or do you do it all manually filing the blank?

Always manually file.

Pins or wafers could be worn and cutting to the next factory depth could potentially create a non-working key. You could also have a lock on your hand that wasn't pinned to factory depths, either on purpose or as a result of inexperience. When you're filing and only taking off .003" - .005" at a time, you're going to produce a much more accurate key to the lock, especially if the lock has been there for a while.

Now, if you wanted to go the extra mile and measure each cut and then create a key on a machine after you're done, that's acceptable.

[Wizer]

Thanks, Confederate.
I haven´t gotten much into impressioning, but thinking of it. When using poor files, do you think I should attempt filing a sharp blank, or just go at it with smoothened blank? I´ve only tried this twise, not succeeding at all..

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Thanks, Confederate.
I haven´t gotten much into impressioning, but thinking of it. When using poor files, do you think I should attempt filing a sharp blank, or just go at it with smoothened blank? I´ve only tried this twise, not succeeding at all..

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Poor files already put you at a disadvantage. If I was in your situation, I'd smoke the blank prior to each insertion and look for marks that way. With a poor file, it's much harder to find impression marks because they're mixed in with the rough file's marks. Smoking the blank helps eliminate a lot of that confusion because it's basically allowing you to create a blank canvas each time. Granted, it's going to take much longer than just going at it with a file but, its an option.