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struggling with a cisa

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 18 Oct 2009 13:20

not sure on model but its a pain in the backside for sure. A well made lock with not a lot of feel.

Image

I removed a few of these in an office block a few weeks back. good job they were thumbturns :o
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 18 Oct 2009 13:59

oh and this is a newer version not the old one. The underside has no pin loading caps its just complete flush and machined like a brass padlock is.
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Solomon » 18 Oct 2009 16:50

Not had any experience with Cisa, but I'd say if you stick at it you'll have it picked soon enough. Strange about the caps, how do they get the pins in at the factory then? :shock:
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 19 Oct 2009 3:02

the end caps are there theyre just machined flush and then anodised so you cant see them. :P
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby weerwolf » 19 Oct 2009 5:38

This is one of the higher quality cisa cylinders. The lower quality only have a logo at the front.
It should have 4 spool pins. Only the rear pin is normal one.
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 19 Oct 2009 6:30

i opened one up a few weeks ago that was damaged its a 5 pin 4 are mushroom pins and one is a pin you can overlift into false set (not sure what the correct term is)

problem is once you have more than one pin falsely set its very difficult to lift out. theyre really good mushroom pins with not much play in the bores
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 19 Oct 2009 6:32

iv got another for trade if anyone wants a play anyway when im allowed to use the trading room
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby raimundo » 19 Oct 2009 9:23

You are clamping the lock body in that worktable, if some of the pressure is on that cam for operating the boltworks, that could be a problem, or if the lock was clamped by the cylinder in an iron vise, it could have deformed the cylinder, I think its better if you can find a way to clamp the 'bible' (look for the terminology thread in some of the stickys here somewhere.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 19 Oct 2009 9:56

nope iv clamped the thumbturn end of the cylinder...
picking locks held in your hand is bad practise, when you come to a lock in a door how you going to cope with adjusting your tension... you wont becuase your not used to holding your hand away from the lock :wink:
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Solomon » 19 Oct 2009 21:17

Rickthepick wrote:i opened one up a few weeks ago that was damaged its a 5 pin 4 are mushroom pins and one is a pin you can overlift into false set (not sure what the correct term is)

problem is once you have more than one pin falsely set its very difficult to lift out. theyre really good mushroom pins with not much play in the bores

Hmm, 4 mushrooms and a spooled key pin aswell! Sounds like a fun little lock, no wonder you're having trouble with it... I really hate mushrooms, a couple of my abus padlocks have those and they're a real nightmare compared to spools. I guess in an actual cylinder there's more room to work with though, so they might not be too bad. Just keep at it! :mrgreen:

I imagine you'll need really good SPP skills to crack this one. Because of that key pin you'll need to manipulate them all individually - and carefully - while paying close attention to what's happening in there. If a pin goes into false, then goes out of false again without that familiar click or the rotation you should be getting, that's the key pin you need to be careful not to overset. Reduce tension till it resets, work on the other pins and lift that one gently when you come to it, obviously making sure not to lift it *too* high. Hopefully the lip on that key pin is big enough to give you some margin for error... and if you get a bit flustered, just be thankful there's only one of them in there!

If the feedback is a bit lackluster and you're not having much luck with SPP, just scrub it open. Providing the bitting isn't too crazy it should pop open pretty easily like that, regardless of what kind of pins are in there. Oh, and don't forget to pick it in both directions. I have a few locks here which are next to impossible to pick clockwise... report back if you get it open! Would love to see it gutted. :)
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby raimundo » 20 Oct 2009 8:34

overlifting, impressioning, snappicking, hmm, what else is there,
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 20 Oct 2009 8:38

Go a new 6 pin BS union oval today too and equally as tough. Dont like the way things are going at the min, locks are progressing quicker than my skills :-D
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Solomon » 20 Oct 2009 8:50

Rickthepick wrote:Go a new 6 pin BS union oval today too and equally as tough. Dont like the way things are going at the min, locks are progressing quicker than my skills :-D

If you don't know what kind of pins are in there it really doesn't help. I've seen the new cylinders on their website, but I have no idea what kind of pins are in there. They're possibly serrated; the kitemarked cylinders Yale produces contain 3 serrated drivers so based on that I'd say it's pretty likely. You could be the guinea pig and strip that Union down for us to see! :mrgreen:
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Rickthepick » 20 Oct 2009 9:00

as soon as its open :D
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Re: struggling with a cisa

Postby Solomon » 20 Oct 2009 9:21

Rickthepick wrote:as soon as its open :D

Haha, ok. If you don't get it open within a week though, just use the key to gut it. I really want to see what's in there. :mrgreen:
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