Frauds

[ElAbogado]

[quote="Brett McMenimon"]The locksmith industry is an industry based on trust. A home owner or business relies on that trust when they move into a new home or change employees. Recently, the sanctity of this trust is being broken. Companies across the country are charging outrageous prices to people who are in situations where they have no choice but to pay. Most often, a locksmith services are needed when the situation is delicate. Someone is locked out or going through a divorce and these fraudulent companies are preying on the emotions that are involved in those situations. To take advantage of this is appalling to say the least. Stories of people paying up to $1,700 to get back into their home are broadcasted on the internet and news, but the problem persists.
So what steps are being made to help rectify the situation? If a customer uses google.com to search for local locksmiths in their area, there are numerous results. Yet, the locations of these locksmiths do not even exist. This means if someone calls for service, has the work done, and needs to speak to someone at an actual location, they will never be able to do so. Also, chances are that the technician that did the work will not answer phone calls or offer any help after payment. Yet web searches continue to list these locations. In my opinion there is one simple solution to this problem. These search engines should be sending some kind of verification form to the locations via standard postal services. If they could just verify the addresses, some of this madness could end. It will never completely solve the problem. There is always going to be people claiming to be locksmiths who are completely unqualified, but it will help. And until there is licensing for this trade, the problem will never completely end, but until then steps need to be made to stop this scam.

I wrote this article because I am a third generation locksmith at The Flying Locksmiths in Randolph, Massachusetts and we spend a lot of time fixing what these so-called “locksmiths” have done. I see this problem on a daily basis, and it’s just not morally right. Something needs to be done and for now all I can do is spread the word.

**Seems to me that before I paid $1,700 to get into my own home, I would simply break a window and climb in... duh!**

[Thisguy]

**Seems to me that before I paid $1,700 to get into my own home, I would simply break a window and climb in... duh!**

They are quoting low fees.. and raise it at the end, after the fact.
There was a news report, sorry I forget from what city, the lady was quoted $50 to get in. The "locksmith" arrives and says oh your car is whatever make and that is extra its $65, she agrees opens the vehicle runs her credit card for $80.

We have customers who ask specifically for an unmarked van, for a variety of reasons.

The new listings in the whitepages around here, the street numbers rotate through the same 25 or so numbers just different street names. Some are building numbers for apartment complexes, vacant buildings, and just somewhere in a 4 lane intersection. No one noticed any of this?

I don't know that restricting tools would do much to prevent this, and would probably require government regulation to do . I've heard of them drilling locks and leaving it at that, not replacing them or offering any alternative to securing the premises. Good luck restricted drills, and key machines.

I think there should be some sort of standard and requirement for licensing. If you think about it, this is a major hole in our nations security. Run a yellow page ad as a locksmith and see what you can get access to, I know where I have been for event the most mundane things. Granted most of our larger customers have insurance and background check requirements, I've heard of a few calling around for a low price for an office or auto lockout etc..

I thought I read California passed some new laws or maybe it was just proposed. All locksmiths to be licensed, license number published on vehicles and advertisements etc.. $10,000 fine for operating without a license and $10,000 fine for knowingly hiring an unlicensed locksmith. If someone from CA could respond on that I am very interested.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Federal agents raided Dependable Lock's headquarters today and arrested one of it's owner's. Tax evasion, fraud, money laundering - oh my! Huge, huge win for the locksmith industry. We finally take down some of these scum. I always had a laugh when I ran into these guys at the local supplier - guys had no clue about locksmithing and it's terrible that people feel victim to their greed and dishonesty. I can't tell you how many of their f**k ups I had to fix.

Read about it here.

[Benesato]

I believe that licensing of the trade is important, but furthermore, restricting the availability of locksmithing tools and parts to licensed or referenced buyers is vital in protecting the trade.

I agree, that lock picking and the availability of lock picks to hobbiests should continue, because it certainly helps to improve the trade, but pins and tools specific to practising the trade, should be restricted to those qualified and recognized (licensed) to be a locksmith.

On one hand I feel that, as person of close to impeccable moral fibre, I have every moral right to pursue lockpicking as a hobby to whatever extent that I choose, including owning and learning to use all manner of 'professional' tools to kits. Tell me, "You can't buy these; it's against the law" and my gut reaction is indignation. On the other hand, tell me, "Okay, you and all of those dodgy people you've bumped into over the years are allowed to buy any of these tools lawfully" and my gut reaction is horror. But then I relax again and consider the reality that none of those dodgy people I've bumped into would actually outlay the time, effort, or cash required.

On the other hand, clearly unscrupulous scammers are willing to spend a great deal of money to secure themselves a highly profitable (and from the sound of it fairly risk-free) income at the expense of legitimate locksmiths. By restricting the 'professional' tools and kits I don't believe it would in any way prevent such people from operating, but rather it would create a black market for the manufacture and sales of such tools and kits, and possibly even create more powerful and organised criminal cartels.

I might be totally wrong, but I think the cat is well and truly out of the bag on this one. I believe there are so many tools and kits floating around that duplicating them for the black market would be fairly easy, and because the dodgy trade has established itself there already exists a market.

As for the customers' responsibility, I think with commonly used services it is fair to place responsibility on the consumer but, short of being a real ditz, who needs a locksmith often enough to learn anything about how their trade operates and what to expect of them? I know few people who have ever even used a locksmith once in their life.

I don't think, short of expensive public awareness campaigns, the public is ever going to be discerning enough to stave off dodgy operators. And I don't believe restricting access to the tools of the trade will put them out of business at all, but it might just create a new field of crime. I believe some form of centralised registration and/or licensing is the only way to retake the trade for legitimate operators, and even then it would only work if the public were made aware to ask for such registration or licences.

Feel free to tell me I'm talking out my rear.

Benesato.

[globallockytoo]

I believe that licensing of the trade is important, but furthermore, restricting the availability of locksmithing tools and parts to licensed or referenced buyers is vital in protecting the trade.

I agree, that lock picking and the availability of lock picks to hobbiests should continue, because it certainly helps to improve the trade, but pins and tools specific to practising the trade, should be restricted to those qualified and recognized (licensed) to be a locksmith.

On one hand I feel that, as person of close to impeccable moral fibre, I have every moral right to pursue lockpicking as a hobby to whatever extent that I choose, including owning and learning to use all manner of 'professional' tools to kits. Tell me, "You can't buy these; it's against the law" and my gut reaction is indignation. On the other hand, tell me, "Okay, you and all of those dodgy people you've bumped into over the years are allowed to buy any of these tools lawfully" and my gut reaction is horror. But then I relax again and consider the reality that none of those dodgy people I've bumped into would actually outlay the time, effort, or cash required.

On the other hand, clearly unscrupulous scammers are willing to spend a great deal of money to secure themselves a highly profitable (and from the sound of it fairly risk-free) income at the expense of legitimate locksmiths. By restricting the 'professional' tools and kits I don't believe it would in any way prevent such people from operating, but rather it would create a black market for the manufacture and sales of such tools and kits, and possibly even create more powerful and organised criminal cartels.

I might be totally wrong, but I think the cat is well and truly out of the bag on this one. I believe there are so many tools and kits floating around that duplicating them for the black market would be fairly easy, and because the dodgy trade has established itself there already exists a market.

As for the customers' responsibility, I think with commonly used services it is fair to place responsibility on the consumer but, short of being a real ditz, who needs a locksmith often enough to learn anything about how their trade operates and what to expect of them? I know few people who have ever even used a locksmith once in their life.

I don't think, short of expensive public awareness campaigns, the public is ever going to be discerning enough to stave off dodgy operators. And I don't believe restricting access to the tools of the trade will put them out of business at all, but it might just create a new field of crime. I believe some form of centralised registration and/or licensing is the only way to retake the trade for legitimate operators, and even then it would only work if the public were made aware to ask for such registration or licences.

Feel free to tell me I'm talking out my rear.

Benesato.

Living in Victoria Australia, you are definitely smoking the silly stuff. You cannot purchase those tools or parts restricted to the trade without some reference or license. The suppliers just wont supply you and for good reason. Australian customs might miss a few parcels that come into the country, oh well!

Victoria brought in licensing but again there is very little enforcement. The customer is ultimately responsible for whom they choose to perform their task. You cannot expect that the trade will just allow anybody to have access to their bread and butter, can you?

[Benesato]

Living in Victoria Australia, you are definitely smoking the silly stuff. You cannot purchase those tools or parts restricted to the trade without some reference or license. The suppliers just wont supply you and for good reason. Australian customs might miss a few parcels that come into the country, oh well!

Victoria brought in licensing but again there is very little enforcement. The customer is ultimately responsible for whom they choose to perform their task. You cannot expect that the trade will just allow anybody to have access to their bread and butter, can you?

I've never smoked the silly stuff! I've never smoked anything, actually.

I think you've got me all wrong perhaps, globallockytoo. Starting from the end; no, I can't and don't expect that the trade will just allow anybody to have access to their bread and butter. I think the industry should be regulated to some degree, even if it is simply registration and/or licensing. Victorian locksmiths have a nicely protected trade, and I think that's good for everyone. I'm not a fan of unregulated industries or complete free trade - livelihoods should have some form of protection, and industries should have some form of regulation to keep them honest and fairly competitive.

As for customs missing parcels, well, that's another story. There is no restriction on lockpicks being imported (although instructional material can be seized) - I have confirmed this with customs directly. There may be restrictions on other items that I'm not aware of.

I understood that the discussion was pertaining primarily to the U.S., and I was discussing the issue there. I probably should have made this clear when I was talking about the state of affairs in general (I can see why you might think I was talking about the situation in Oz).

I actually came across the thread via the Search function (I was looking up 'Lane', I think), but worry not - I'll steer clear of the Locksmith Business Information forum from now on...

Benesato.

[desolator]

Hi,

Im new here and i see that u haf writen that lockpicks can be imported to australia. I am a doing this solely as a hobby and will not be carrying it around with me wherever i go. So is it legal? and are there differences between the states? i often travel btw perth and melbourne.

Thanks,
ken