Questions [hopefully not advanced] about Safe Cutaways

[nataz]

ATTN Moderators: If this post is over the line, I apologize. Just let me know and I can delete it, or you can lock it, w/e.

Hello,

I'm new to these boards, but not new to lock sport (we didn’t formally call it that, but it certainly describes what we were doing). I started picking back in the late 90's in high school, but took a break sometime in the intervening college years as all my lock sport buddies went in different life directions.

Recently I find myself back in school getting a Masters and have found a great group of people who are interested in getting into lock sport. With that said, we are progressing rapidly through basic keyways, padlocks, shims, and security pins. There are about a dozen students who I’ve taught the basics of SPP, and we are quickly running up against what I can teach them.

Eventually I’d like to get into the advanced forum, but I realize it’s a process and I’m in no rush. Truth be told, I’ve been able to find all of the information I’ve needed elsewhere on the web, in certain books, or by talking to a friendly locksmith. I’d just like to get in there to bounce ideas around.

One of the new directions my friends and I want to look into is safe manipulation. Yes, I realize that this is an advanced topic, and I promise I won’t ask any questions about the mechanics of manipulation. I already have a decent idea of how it works, and a pretty good set of references to work with. What I’m lacking is hands on experience.

All I’d like is some advice on making a cutaway of a safe mechanism. I could have sworn that I saw a similar thread a few days ago, but now I can’t find it anywhere. I checked the site search and googled to no avail. Again, I want to stress that I don’t need any advice on the manipulation itself, I just want to know, can I make/how hard is it to make a cutaway from an E-Bay’ed Safe Lock and a Dremmel tool? I’m picking up a rotary set over Christmas break, should I make sure to buy any specific model or bits? Do most people use a rotary tool, or do they use a mill (seems awkward).

That’s pretty much it. I know there was a thread here earlier, if someone has that link that would work as well.

Thanks in advance,
nataz

[sfi72]

Check ebay every week or so, S&G 6730 and similar safe locks pop up on there a lot. If your really lucky, you might even find a cutaway as they do show up on there from time to time. The 6730 is your basic safe lock, so it's a good starting lock for learning manipulation, and it should be easy to cut away if you want to.

[nataz]

I was bidding on a cutaway this week, but I gave up once it hit 160. I felt like the money could be better spend on a dremmel tool and a uncut lock. Was this a bad decision? I heard they went for somewhere between 50-100 dollars, so went it went that high I pulled out.

I haven't seen any since then, and the 90 day search hasn't come up with anything either for pre cut safe locks. There have been a bunch of uncut locks...hence the thread.

[unlisted]

My best suggestion is to just purchase a simple safe lock, and open it up, and look at all the parts. from there you can figure out where you want to cut the housing, etc. Heck, you may not even need/want to cut it @ that point.

Better yet, make a plexiglass cover for the piece you remove, or a whole new "housing" out of plexiglass..

[nataz]

Hmmm, not a bad idea with the plexiglass. I wonder how much material I can remove and replace with plexiglass. Add in a stand out of the same material and It would prob look pretty cool. Looks like I have a project over break.

[Jaakko]

After reading the topic I thought that is easy, take a cutter and do it like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Bapl2KG4nC4/STpeN-mXJ4I/AAAAAAAABWE/IMeBZwqpy2U/s1600-h/IMG_2261-muokattu.png

[Legion303]

Make sure you know exactly how the lock shell works with the lock before cutting. For example, on my LaGard safe locks the removable back cover has a part that pushes down a "check pin" (simplifying) in the bolt mechanism; if the back cover is off, you can't retract the bolt. So if I were to cut away mine I would need to cut around that section and leave it intact, or find some other way to activate the check pin. If this seems vague it's because I wrote it that way. :)

-steve

[FarmerFreak]

Make sure you know exactly how the lock shell works with the lock before cutting. For example, on my LaGard safe locks the removable back cover has a part that pushes down a "check pin" (simplifying) in the bolt mechanism; if the back cover is off, you can't retract the bolt.

You could also remove the check pin. It isn't needed when practicing non-destructive entry. But as Legion said, make sure you know exactly how the lock shell works before cutting.

Making a safe lock cutaway should be pretty easy. If you did decide to remove the check pin (re-lock device), you should be able to leave the back cover off the lock and use it as is. Or decide at that point what more you would like to cut off. Just make certain you aren't cutting off anything important,...study the lock with the back cover off before deciding to cut anything.

FYI, in case there are any discrepancies, I am thinking about an S&G 6730. Unfortunately I don't have one in front of me at the moment.

[nataz]

hey guys, again thanks for all the info.

I'll be picking up a few over the next month or so, I'll post pictures once I get everything cut and mounted. Looks like I made a good call not getting that cutaway I was chasing on e-bay, with that kind of money I should be able to purchase a number of locks to practice on.

[mh]

After reading the topic I thought that is easy, take a cutter and do it like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Bapl2KG4nC4/STpeN-mXJ4I/AAAAAAAABWE/IMeBZwqpy2U/s1600-h/IMG_2261-muokattu.png

J-or-the-CIA - Are you into DE now Those cuts show all but the lock manipulation part...

mh

[straightpick]

If you are interested, I have about 8-10 LaGard locks mounted on wooden stands. I made a small piece of plexiglas that can be screwed into the lock to hold the relocker down (with the back cover off) so you can see everything move and work. You can then remove this piece and have a functioning lock as a replacement. PM me if interested.

[Jaakko]

After reading the topic I thought that is easy, take a cutter and do it like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Bapl2KG4nC4/STpeN-mXJ4I/AAAAAAAABWE/IMeBZwqpy2U/s1600-h/IMG_2261-muokattu.png

J-or-the-CIA - Are you into DE now Those cuts show all but the lock manipulation part...

mh

Nah, that picture was taken in Essen last year

[nataz]

Sorry for the bump, but I just wanted to note that I now have both a dremel and SG Type II lock. I've spent the past couple of months making picks and cutaway cylinders, but now I finally have some free time to work on this.

I'm going to be mounting it and then working on cutaway with a Plexiglas cover over the weekend.

Any final suggestions or pictures I could use for inspiration? Right now it seems pretty straight forward.

[ElAbogado]

My best suggestion is to just purchase a simple safe lock, and open it up, and look at all the parts. from there you can figure out where you want to cut the housing, etc. Heck, you may not even need/want to cut it @ that point.

Better yet, make a plexiglass cover for the piece you remove, or a whole new "housing" out of plexiglass..

Leave the back off the lock when you mount it to a practice board and disable the bolt lockout device to that when you manipulate it, it will open without a problem. You can see everything from the back, only looking when necessary to check your progress.

Unlisted is right about not wanting to jack the lock up just to make a cutaway; it's not necessary in this case.

I have several 6730's or LaGard's that I am not using, pm me if you are interested in one cheap.

El Abogado

[nataz]

Hello again friends. I purchased a disassembled SG 6700 type II safe lock off of ebay over break to make a cutaway out of, but I'm having trouble putting it back together and setting the combination. Since I'm not talking about manipulation or DE I *think* its okay to have in the open forum. If not, apologies in advance.

Essentially all I want to know is how to "install" this lock onto a piece of wood.

Here are all the pieces.



I know that the black plastic piece goes over the shaft of the dial, and then the shroud goes on. Obviously the shaft extends through the body of the locking mech and into the brass cam. The back plate has to be on for it to work as well, again for obvious reasons.

Here is a picture with how I thought it should be assembled. I hand aligned the wheels, slotted the nose and the cam, and retracted the bolt.



The problem I have is three fold. 1) the shaft is now way to long to attach the back plate, and 2) if I spin the shaft out so there is more room, when I turn the wheel it hits the threads and forces the shaft into the back plate. 3) how do I set the combination with the provided set key?

What am I missing here? I feel like an idiot trying to put this together.
Help?