Medeco Keymark

[alias]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can identify this keyway? I just picked up these cylinders from eBay (minus keys and no idea if they're keyed alike) and if there's any way to get a few blanks I'd like to try impressioning them (if that's even possible with these locks). From the impression I get, the Keymark cylinders keyways are patented so I don't hold a lot of hope but for $4.25 USD for the two of them, its no great loss.

The ultimate end for the cylinders is to try and turn one of them into a cutaway and keep one for picking but naturally its going to be easier if I can get/make a key to open them.



PS If you're looking for locks to practice on, eBay seems to be the way to go. I picked up 32 mortise cylinders (20 x 5 pin SC1, 6 x Yale-9 and a few others), 21 key in knob cylinders (mostly Schlage C) and these 2 Medecos for $100 USD all up.

[thertel]

Paracentric keyways...

Got Slim Line Picks?

[Allmytimerblongtothis]

HOly CRAP did the guy who owned those have parkinsons!@?!?!?! look at all those scratches

[skold]

yeh..i was thinking..Man whoever was attempting to pick that must have been blind or to stupid to work out which part was supposed to be the keyhole.. well, ya have to have slimlined for that...can you take out the pins ??( i mean out of the top )

[alias]

I only won the auction this morning so I haven't got the things yet but from looking at the Medeco catalogue it should be possible to get at the pins from the top of the cylinder chamber - it seems like they use allen screws on top as a retention mechanism.

I guess if I can find an already cut key and assuming that traditional impressioning isn't an option (which I'm guessing it won't be with the angled cuts and sidebar) that I could maybe repin it to suit but I really don't know about the sidebar side of things - is it going to be possible to repin the sidebar and if so, are they the same diameter as the cylinder pins? Also, are they 'standard' length pins or can you only get them from Medeco? The catalogue seems to only refer to 2 different depth sidebar pins so I guess I could file them down to suit if the diameter is standard. Anyone who services Medeco locks able to clarify?

I'm looking forward to getting them here but it looks like I'll be going for surface mail ($50 shipping vs $110 airmail) so it'll be a 4-6 weeks till I see them so I've got plenty of time to plan my attack.

[alias]

Hmmm. I guess I should have read more before I posted - seems I was looking at the details of the 'standard' Medeco cylinders. From what I can see from the exploded view, the Keymark doesn't even employ a sidebar but makes use of the following;

"Keymark Cylinders incorporate solid nickel bottom pins for superior wear resistance. Cylinders also incorporate mushroom top pins and bottom pins in several different lengths for added pick resistance. The unique shape of the keyway, with its patented Security Leg impedes the movement of picking tools and adds yet another level of pick resistance to the lock."

So no dramas with sidebars but a nice 6 or 7 pin top and bottom mushroom pin beasty with an ugly looking keyway. I can't wait!

[Romstar]

I HATE these things.

You basically have to pick sideways. Don't laugh, you'll know exactly what I am talking about the moment you put a pick in there. By the way, skip the lifters, go right for the diamonds.

Well, maybe I shouldn't say that exactly, you can use lifters, but you have to find the pin bores EXACTLY, otherwise you aren't going to use them at all.

Impressioning does work on these, you just have to find the blanks. Oh, and you have to be really good at impressioning. Try to get the depths and spacings for the lock, I don't ahve them anymore, but they are a major help in impressioning the things.

Romstar

[HeadHunterCEO]

get some shims and shim it

instead of using a key blang use you pick to position each pin

[S3rratedSp00L]

Nice! Those look like fun! If you can get (or make) a keyblank then just pop the plug out and with the pins in order, file each position until the pins sit flush. Then pop the plug back in and test your key. If your key works the first time, great! If not, just repeat until it does... sometimes it is hard to tell wheather or not it is flush. Sometimes it helps to use a marker to get the spacing right. insert the key in the plug with all the pins removed and poke the marker in each hole to mark your keyblank for proper spacing! I do this when I am too lazy to impression.

With this method, there is less chance of ruining a valuable keyblank and your cylinders are already removed anyway, so why not?

You may have to pick or shim to get the plug out of course! Picking would probably be the most fun and rewarding!

[HeadHunterCEO]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can identify this keyway? I just picked up these cylinders from eBay (minus keys and no idea if they're keyed alike) and if there's any way to get a few blanks I'd like to try impressioning them (if that's even possible with these locks). From the impression I get, the Keymark cylinders keyways are patented so I don't hold a lot of hope but for $4.25 USD for the two of them, its no great loss.

The ultimate end for the cylinders is to try and turn one of them into a cutaway and keep one for picking but naturally its going to be easier if I can get/make a key to open them.



PS If you're looking for locks to practice on, eBay seems to be the way to go. I picked up 32 mortise cylinders (20 x 5 pin SC1, 6 x Yale-9 and a few others), 21 key in knob cylinders (mostly Schlage C) and these 2 Medecos for $100 USD all up.

that guy must have been high

you would have been bidding against me if i had seen that

the Y1and sc1 stuff alone is worth it

new or used?

[alias]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I hadn't even thought of shimming them and I think that's going to be the easiest way to crack them first time round. As for Keymark blanks, well I think that's a dream for the most part but I'll keep my eyes open for a cut key and hopefully I can repin it to suit or file the pins at the worst...

HeadHunter: Unfortunately its mostly used. There are a mix of a few completely new, some pretty newish and a few oldish looking ones plus a fair few without keys but at less than $2 a lock, well who cares? I'll be picking a different lock every day for 2 months and when I can get my hands on some SC1 blanks I've got impressioning practice galore!

[randmguy]

You're right about finding keys. The Keymark line is patented and proprietary...any smith or institution that wants to put up the front money gets their own keyway. When these things were new (1996) Medeco was advertising 17,000 distinct keyways. The last I heard they were nowhere close to using them all. If you know the area where the cylinders came from you should be able to find smith that sold the keys to the customer and ask them for blanks. The don't cut correctly on standard key machines (I think you need an HPC 1200 w/special jaws or the actual Medeco cutter to dupe the things) so they might be willing to sell you some uncut blanks if they find out how you got them and where you are.

[locksmistress]

Yale is selling Keymark as their high security now. It may not help you with blanks, but they have full depth and spacing guides on-line.

http://www.yalecommercial.com/library/partsmanual/

Pin specifications too. From their descriptions it sound like your average LAB pins would work adequately. Except for voiding the warranty and decreasing security via color coding...

[randmguy]

Are you sure about Keymark pins being ordinary LAB .115 pins? All my literature says that Keymark is pinned to A2 SFIC standards.

Pin diam .108, First cut .988, CTC spacing .150, Pin increment .0125, and a MACS of 10. Or is Yale using their own pinning standard for their Keymark line?

[locksmistress]

Ooops - sorry - that's a yes on the A2 (0.110) - you can get them from LAB.

I came to the conclusion that aftermarket would function because the service guide specifically recommends buying Yale Keymark Original pins -citing the composition (nickle silver), lack of betraying color coding, and spool pins in some lengths as well as higher tolerances.

Also, the top of the depths and spacing chart describes it as an A2 system.

Which still isn't half as useful as knowing how to get a key would be...