What are the uses of depth keys?

[marginal]

Hi ElAbogado.

Spacing is OK and is given by the software in hundreds of a millimeter (left side of the small pic) according to the key code.
The transitions are nothing but slides from one bitting to another (as long as I can see it on my key).
Their only purpose is to make the pin (or whatever replaces it in this kind of lock) slide smoothly while moving the key in or out.
This is at least my humble understanding of the design of this specific lock and the key.

[weerwolf]

It is even more convenient as I will use both sides of the key for different depths, for instance I'll use one side for number one depth, the other for number two, on the second key it will be number three and four respectively ...
How about it ???

Thanks.

I don't think that will work. These keys are cut flat. So there is no way you will be able to tell the cuts appart.

You will be better of with keys cut 1313 - 2424 and one cut 3131 - 4242. That way you get the spacing correct and you'll be able to cut the transision between cuts too.
And you'll need 2 keys. You can't duplicate the right hand cuts on the left hand side of the new key.

[marginal]

weerwolf, I know I'll need two keys.
One size twice on each side of a key.
But I don;t understand why I won't be able to tell the cuts apart.
I am not going to cut any transitions on my D&S keys.
Only the cuts, which are going to be centered as per the specs (only their depth from the edge and space from the tip of the key matters).
Once I cut a key as per its code, only then I'll cut the transitions which are nothing more than slides from the edges of two adjacent cuts, and again, which sole purpose is to let the pins slide smoothly from cut to cut.
They'll be like diagonals in the case of different depths and straight lines in the case of equal ones.
That's what I see on my original key, and it seems 100% logical to me ...

[weerwolf]

Ok , I see your point.
But it will probably take you a while to get the hang of cutting the correct angle between 2 adjacent cuts. If the angle is too steep , the key will not function as smooth as it should. Thats the whole reason I would go for the 1313 cuts. I have been thinking about the use of HS depth keys too. And that was my solution for it.

[marginal]

OK, but what if there's a transition like 1-4 ???

[ElAbogado]

Hi ElAbogado.

Spacing is OK and is given by the software in hundreds of a millimeter (left side of the small pic) according to the key code.
The transitions are nothing but slides from one bitting to another (as long as I can see it on my key).
Their only purpose is to make the pin (or whatever replaces it in this kind of lock) slide smoothly while moving the key in or out.
This is at least my humble understanding of the design of this specific lock and the key.

I understand that in theory, but how is one going to make the transitional cuts? Freehand? Could be very difficult on some sidewinder machines.

[zeke79]

I hate that thing. The die on that stupid thing slips and often you don't get a very accurately cut key. I should learn to be for familiar with it in case my HPC 1200 breaks down but I really feel amaturish when using that for work. If its for use at home I would be ok with it though.

I know this is old but there seems to be some posting going on here and I thought that maybe this info would help. Yes the Pak A Punch is notorious for "climbing" the die while cutting. A cool tip I can give you is to place your key in the vise, set the depth of cut and then hold the punch block tightly from top to bottom with your free hand. This will give you much more consistant cuts as it prevents climbing. Just be sure to use the same amount of squeezing pressure each time you make a cut. More than likely when you do this you will need to re-calibrate the punch. I found that this worked really well on schlage keys and worked very very well on the automotive set.

To be honest, I know the punch is much more handy to carry to the door but a Blue punch is a better punch for just a few hundred dollars more and still offers decent ease of use at the door if you have a step or porch to sit it on. Not quite as ideal for at the door impressioning but it can be done. It just depends on how much room you have in your budget and in your van. I like blue punches better than the HPC punch but for your dollar the HPC punch packs a whole lot more capability for again just a few hundred more dollars. All of these machines will get you good working keys. The A1 punches just take some fiddling to figure out how to get good keys every time but once you learn it's like riding a bike, you never forget. Another heads up about all of these punches is that they don't cut some profiles very well. The schlage SC20 for instance distorts so you end up with a bent, wavy key where the cuts were made.

I do recommend you stay away from the cheaper blue punch knock offs. I have both read articles and been told by sources I trust that these machines go wacky on calibration easily and just out of the blue. There may be some tricks to using these cheaper machines just like what I stated for the Pak A Punch. Hopefully if there is a trick to using these cheaper machines and getting good keys consistantly someone here knows how and can tell us.

I think with a bit of time and practice with your pack a punch you will find that it is a pretty reliable tool that can be a big time saver. Since you have to learn how much pressure to hold on the punch and die assembly you need to be cautious when switching key profiles to thinner or thicker profiles or even just switching to a different brand of blanks.

I hope this info can help some of you out and you can get the best out of a pak a punch that might just be collecting dust right now. If you try this out and you are still having trouble, drop me a PM and let me know exactly what problems you are having and I'll see if I have had the same problem and can hopefully help you sort it out. Afterall, that is why we are all here helping each other out to get the very best out of our tools.

Hope this helps some of you out,

-Zeke79-

[zeke79]

I forgot to mention that if I recall correctly I needed to hold with less pressure on shallower cuts than I did with deeper cuts on the die block on my schlage punch. You may or may not see the same problem as I had. Again, it will just take a bit of practice to get your technique perfected so don't get discouraged if you cut a few keys that are a bit screwy when learning. You should eventually be able to get the punch sorted out pretty well.

[marginal]

Hi ElAbogado.

Spacing is OK and is given by the software in hundreds of a millimeter (left side of the small pic) according to the key code.
The transitions are nothing but slides from one bitting to another (as long as I can see it on my key).
Their only purpose is to make the pin (or whatever replaces it in this kind of lock) slide smoothly while moving the key in or out.
This is at least my humble understanding of the design of this specific lock and the key.

I understand that in theory, but how is one going to make the transitional cuts? Freehand? Could be very difficult on some sidewinder machines.

Yes, freehand.
I intend to draw the lines and cut, we'll see, I have not received my blanks yet.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Like Eyes_Only, I keep a set of Schlage and Kwikset depth keys on my truck - you just never know. When I first got my truck, the HPC machine was incredibly out of calibration and of course, we had jobs that needed to be done that day and I didn't have enough time to give it a decent calibration. One of the jobs was to re-key some Schlage interchangeable cores that were apart of a fairly new system (the keys we're brand new - incredibly accurate) and supply some additional change keys. In that situation, the depth keys were a better and much faster solution than cutting them in HPC (which would have entailed cutting, checking for accuracy in either the plug or with a micrometer and possibly re-cutting). Plus, you never know when a code machine can go kaput. If that happened, I'd still have an "out" with the depth keys and the duplicator. Contingency plans are the name of the game in locksmithing.

[zeke79]

I can agree with having backup space and depth keys. I keep 10 different residential, commercial and padlock/utility keys. I keep Kwikset 6 pin for titan etc which works for both standard 5 pin and 6 pin locks, schlage sc1 & sc4, Yale Y1, Master M1, Dexter DE6, Weiser WR5, Sargent LA, American AM7, along with a set for GMS MX which is a cheap restricted system I offer to those who want some key control but cannot afford a full blown high security outfitting. These will allow me to cut keys for most jobs that might come my way if both code machines are down for some reason or another. I also keep several sets of auto S&D keys that allow me to cut keys for the common vehicles in the area. By no means is this a complete backup solution but does cover a good 85% of what I might encounter.

[marginal]

Well, I did it ...

I know they're not perfect, but I succeeded to make one key by code for my car.
Only one side works and it is moving rough inside the lock, but it is good enough even to start the car.

[marginal]

Well, I did it ...
Here are the number two, three and four depths:

I know they're not perfect, but I succeeded to make one key by code for my car.
Only one side works and it is moving rough inside the lock, but it is good enough even to start the car.

[weerwolf]

Can you show a pic of the code cut key ?

[marginal]

I rather don't, for security reasons.

Sorry.