Newbie Starting with a spool Lock?!

[le.nutzman]

The biggest thing you must know about security pins is that you have to set them first before you can set any pins that aren't security pins.

Not necessarily true that is just one technique used to bypass security pins.

Other people get the lock into a false set and then pick the security pins and then re-pick the pins that become unset.

I prefer to pick like normal finding the binding pin (with the least amount of pick manipulation) and as i manipulate it i pay special attention to the feedback i get decide what type of pin i think it is and go from there.

Gee from that statement, I'd say you agree with what I stated previously, that security pins need to be set FIRST before setting normal pins. I didn't say why, you did. I didn't think I had to. Have you picked a 5 spool American 5200? Have you picked a 5 spool anything? Please come back and tell me when you do and when you find to the contrary, something that contradicts what we BOTH have said.

[darklighterz7611]

No i havnt had the chance to get my hands on an American 5200 tho i would love the chance, and yes i have picked a lot of spooled locks.

I didnt mean to tread on your toes or imply that your wrong, granted after re reading my post its not exactly worded as to my intention. So i will try and further explain myself.

The problem i had with your post is that this site educates those very new to lock picking, and while i know its just semantics i can see some confusion arrising from the fact you wrote "you have to" and "set" instead of false set. I agree with what you said on the whole but feel other people could assume that you HAVE to pick security pins first and set them completely (to the shear line) in all locks before setting the regulars.

Is it not possible that the manufacture of a lock and the pins could require you to have to set the regular pins first? Before the security pins can even false set. Or what if someone inexperienced was starting on spooled locks 5 pin 2 spooled (and knew which pins were spooled) you advice would cause them to focus on the spools and would have them thinking there tension was wrong where'as it was the fact these spools were further on in the binding order.

Again i apologise for any miscommunication i hope you understand my position now.

[le.nutzman]

No i havnt had the chance to get my hands on an American 5200 tho i would love the chance, and yes i have picked a lot of spooled locks.

I didnt mean to tread on your toes or imply that your wrong, granted after re reading my post its not exactly worded as to my intention. So i will try and further explain myself.

The problem i had with your post is that this site educates those very new to lock picking, and while i know its just semantics i can see some confusion arrising from the fact you wrote "you have to" and "set" instead of false set. I agree with what you said on the whole but feel other people could assume that you HAVE to pick security pins first and set them completely (to the shear line) in all locks before setting the regulars.

Is it not possible that the manufacture of a lock and the pins could require you to have to set the regular pins first? Before the security pins can even false set. Or what if someone inexperienced was starting on spooled locks 5 pin 2 spooled (and knew which pins were spooled) you advice would cause them to focus on the spools and would have them thinking there tension was wrong where'as it was the fact these spools were further on in the binding order.

Again i apologise for any miscommunication i hope you understand my position now.

No, it's not possible, as you yourself have even stated, "Other people get the lock into a false set and then pick the security pins and then re-pick the pins that become unset."....this is exactly what I was refering to. If you find something that contradicts this knowledge, let me know. Because for every normal pin you set, you're going to UN-set it when you set the security pin right next to it, hence, you need to set the security pins first.

Pull any lock apart and pin it with 2 or 3 pins, 2 spools and a normal pin and see for your self which pin has to be set first.

[darklighterz7611]

I have a lock which if set up so that the 2nd pin has a regular driver and the rest spools. The 2nd (regular) driver must be set 1st (and doesn't at any time unset), else the others cant even false set, they dont bind or anything.

Its because of this lock i think that the binding order is as important as the security pins being set first. If you or someone has an alternative explanation for this then please let me know, as you do have the experience on me.

And again i never said that technique is wrong or doesn't work as you keep saying i said it myself. I already mentioned that my 1st post was off the point.

Maybe i have a one in a million lock, which is malfunctioning or what ever. But you must understand though that you learn from your locks, and my technique has so far worked for me.

Anyway this is off the point, i was not arguing over your technique just the way you posted, it could be easily misconstrued by those new at this. As i mentioned previously the words set and false set are not similar, picking a lock into false set and fully setting the security pins 1st are completely different techniques.

[FarmerFreak]

"Other people get the lock into a false set and then pick the security pins and then re-pick the pins that become unset."....this is exactly what I was refering to. If you find something that contradicts this knowledge, let me know. Because for every normal pin you set, you're going to UN-set it when you set the security pin right next to it, hence, you need to set the security pins first.

Sorry man, darklighterz7611 pointed out that binding order is important. I have evidence of this too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-MpLvk0_L0
This is a video I did a while ago. The first four pins are all spooled, the last two are normal. I picked it three times in this video. But pay attention to the first time, specifically because I picked it clockwise and it shows that the binding order is important. The point being that the last pin (normal) never dropped back down while setting the first four spooled pins. However the fifth pin did drop back down in the middle of picking the spooled pins, because I had picked that one out of order. Watching the replay one could reason that I could have picked some of the spooled pins before picking the fifth pin, but then I would still have to pick the rest of the spooled pins after picking the fifth pin.

It is possible that with the locks you have been playing with. The spooled pins happen to be a larger diameter than the regular pins. Which could explain for your reasoning. If that were the case than in most scenarios the binding order would be all "larger" spooled pins and then the "smaller" standard pins. But this is only speculation.