Wannabe locksmith - now what?

[EmCee]

Hi All

Brief history - I've been researching opportunities to learn a trade as a long term investment and to increase my earning potential. I've looked at several - plumbing, electrician, lgv driver etc and now locksmithing. Similar story with all of them - lots of training companies willing to take lots of money and promising that there is a shortage of the relevant skills and that after a few days' training you walk into a £*put your own big number salary here* job.

I had never thought of locksmithing until recently. Family member had purse stolen. Purse contained front door key and driving licence. I wanted to change the lock but first I did some research (uPVC door with euro cylinder). Called a couple of locksmiths who wanted around £115 to replace lock (one of them had never heard of 'anti-bump'). Ordered replacement cylinder and changed it myself.

From research into locksmithing I gather that ICL and MLA are the only two reputable associations. Is that right? ICL looked good to me - NDE appeals - and the courses looked good. Problem is that one of the training companies listed by ICL stopped training two years ago; and I haven't managed to get through to the other one by email or by phone.

I know I'm not going to be a £60k pa locksmith after a few days' training but I have to start somewhere. Question now is where do I start in terms of finding training? Would an experienced locksmith consider taking me on, training me in return for free labour? I'd spend time working for no money, of course, but on the other hand I wouldn't be paying out thousands on training.

My present job is getting tough but still generates some income. My thought was to train, seek to earn a bit from the new skill and, over time, build up more experience and earnings. I have reasonable carpentry skills. I have fitted doors and fitted new and replacement locks. My main desire is to learn NDE techniques, lock recognition, re-keying and master keying etc and also about fitting and problem-solving with electronic locks. I don't want to learn about uPVC repair or door fitting, nor about auto work - or at least not at this stage.

My personal experience is that if I wanted a key cut I'd go to a high street key cutter; if I locked myself out of a car I'd call a breakdown service or the car manufacturer; if I wanted a door repaired or fitted I'd call a uPVC company or a carpenter. In none of those cases would it have occurred to me to call a locksmith - until I started researching and found that these are jobs that locksmiths do.

Sorry the post is so long but I'm getting a headache with searching for information, thinking I'm making headway and then taking two steps back.

I'd be grateful for advice on training; and on whether my idea of starting up by offering emergency callout and limited other services (fitting and replacing locks, re-keying etc) would be viable as a business? These are the things I personally would call a locksmith for.

Cheers...

[exspook]

I did my MLA training and that counted for a lot.

You need to do some research into your area and your client base and look at the going rates (yell or thompson local)

Good luck though and keep us informed

[EmCee]

Hi exspook

Thanks for the good wishes. That's an endorsement for MLA then - I'll take another look at their courses.

I am researching the local area and thinking of marketing, but that's all a bit premature before I've taken some training which, as said, I'm looking at as a long-term investment in acquiring new skills rather than a get-rich-quick scheme.

Other interesting looking training courses I've seen:

1st Alert Locksmith Training
Matrix Locksmiths
1stcall lockouts - National Network of Approved Locksmiths
UK Locksmiths Association

Does anyone have any comments on these?

Cheers...

[79commando]

As someone who's not based anywhere near you so I have no qualms if you set up in business all I can say is save your money. I'm probably wasting my breath as you've already succumbed to a few other courses but the General Locksmith market is pretty dead at the moment. There are more training schools churning out new guys every week than the market can handle. Think about it. If there was money to be made doing locksmithing why aren't they out there doing it rather than training people.

You have only skimmed the surface with the notion that a key cutter cuts keys, UPVC repairer repairs UPVC etc. If there are any good locksmiths in your area they will probably have targetted their advertisement in these fields to pick the work up without calling themselves a locksmith. Look at the Nationals they advertise in every section and make themselves out to be locals and experts in their field but 9 out of 10 times it's their newly trained locksmith that covers all the jobs.

I've googled your area for locksmiths etc and have found literaly hundreds of companies, sure a few will be the same company operating under different banners but it's all competition. You will also find that a lot of Locksmith work is now covered under Insurance claims and these companies have their own prefered supplier.

That aside, set up. Pay for a van, phone, insurance, tools, stock, training, advertising, fuel. repairs and you'll crack it. It should only cost about £12,000 in the first year if you scrimp. Oh and be prepared to give up your social life as contrary to belief the phone doesn't ring when you want it to so you can't work your own hours.

The business is changing from a full time profession to a part time profession as a lot of good locksmiths can't compete in todays market. The problem you then get is you get rusty and a 5 minute gain entry takes over an hour. You damage doors and get a bad reputation or even better sued for a new door.

If I was being realsitic with about £50.000 spare you could set up a good business and have money to live on whilst you are building a name for yourself over the first couple of years. Lots of good locksmiths are going out of business as they've no money left for advertisement etc after paying their costs. Even a good business can go under with a couple of part timers setting up in their area so it's not a secure job if job security is what you're looking for.

Have a good search and I'm sure you'll find my words repeated until some guys are blue in the face.

[kendale]

Hi
You would be better off checking out the amount of locksmiths already trading in your area before spending cash on courses.

You also need to remember most lock picks for curtain locks will cost you between £150 & £500 each, £10,000 is what I probably have in lockpicks and no longer use since I totally changed from general locksmithing about 2 years ago when work become cut throat, when you consider it is basically 1 pick for each lock this is well worth considering.

With the amount of locksmiths now trading the competition for work has caused everybody to drop the prices for work which in turn made it a rather cut throat business.

If you go into this trade don't give up the day job and consider also doing Cctv, alarms or Access control alongside or you will have financial problems after a very short time.

Search google for locksmith training companies in the U.K . 55,600 now offering training, if each company only trained 10 people a month for a year it is not hard to work out that the country is flooded with locksmiths already.

Incidently you should also consider why so many people are now training locksmithing rather than doing actual locksmithing, simple answer is because they dont have enough work to survive as a locksmith.

If somebody that has been trading as a locksmith for a long time can not survive due to the amount of locksmiths now trading I really would consider your options very carefully.

[Rickthepick]

Incidently you should also consider why so many people are now training locksmithing rather than doing actual locksmithing, simple answer is because they dont have enough work to survive as a locksmith.

Thats bang on

You will find it hard to earn good money.

Its great to do alongside another job and now and again you have a load of work for no particular reason.

To be honest i reckon a very small percentage of people trained actually last more than 6 months before throwing in the towel. It really is tough.

[lockey1963]

It is certainly an admirable intention to open up a totally NDE lock opening business targeting the emergency call out market , but as open ups form less than 10% of the average calls an advertising locksmith recieves , you would find it very difficult to even earn beer money with such a business.

Even if just wanting to specialise in open ups, this will take some time to become any good at , and as has been mentioned already , an expensive large investment too , one if only looking to cover open ups , you will find almost impossible to recoup before more significant investment is required to keep up to date with the new crop of locks.

You may have no interest in upvc repair and upgrades , but in amny areas this forms up to 50% of the calls locksmiths get from their ads , even though you may not advertise for auto a percentage of those calls will involve auto openings , access control and lock fitting will form some of the calls , most will be advertising firms offering advertising and reps trying to sell you stuff you dont want or need.

If wanting to enter this business , then my advice would be forget it , but if determined then learn the skills that actually make you money and that form the bulk of the calls you will get , forget the love affair with entry , as this alone wont even cover your investment.

you also need to look at how many people advertise as locksmiths in your area , and check that there exists 40,000 to 50,000 homes per advertising locksmiths in that area , or you will struggle, remember that all the advertising courses teach you is basic entry and some offer a taste of advanced entry training , so everyone advertising has been trained in the everyday open ups , so all are trying to grab their market share of these jobs and undercut to ridiculous prices to get the job, some dont realise until too late that they are working at a loss.
as most advertising lockies have only been trained in basic entry and basic lock changing , then it doesnt take a genius to realise that this is the market that is drenched and the work in short supply, its the work that many advertising cant cope with that still offers a living to a trading locksmith.

it is a tough business to survive in these days , and you have to be multi skilled to be able to make a living these days , and it gets tougher for most each year , as however many adverts there are in your area this year , there will be 25% more minimum next year .

its an industry that has more horror stories and more heartbreak in it than success , due to volumes, so bear all in mind.

MLA is an excellent route , but it will be some time before they teach you the full nde entry , as they train general locksmithing covering the entire trade and not just 1 section, and in the 1st course you do not learn picking at all .

good luck fella

[lockey1963]

oh for an edit button .

Your idea of offering to work for a local locksmith free for a period of time to gain experience on paper seems like a good idea , but now put yourself in the shoes of the local locksmith approached for this , considering how tough the market is at present , would you train someone up to become your competition in a year or twos time , give them access to your clients and client list so they can attempt to nick them at a later date , your request will probably end up in the bin along with the dozen others hes had that month.

this sort of exercise along with apprenticeships and employed locksmith positions are almost as rare as dodo's , and things of the very distant past.

if you get a stroke of luck and get a locksmith willing to do this , then again its a lottery , are you being trained by a locksmith ? or someone whos just completed a 2 day course ? how much can he teach you that will be usefull ?
If you are lucky enough to fall in with a locksmith , then the majority of the work he will be taking you out on and teaching you will be upvc repair , fresh fits , and odd auto openings , open ups will be less than 10% of what he shows you , and most wont be nde , so again you dont get what you seek.

from your example given, i would say that £115 for a simple euro change is extortionate , but i dont know his circumstances , after all when he works out his costs per job , ie his advertising spend , tool and stock investment, van running costs , admin costs , and general business costs such as insurance bank charges etc, total divided by his number of jobs , its not unusual for many to have a very high cost per job ratio due to them not having a sustainable job volume to bring this down .
so without knowing his cost to job, time of day , quality of cylinder being fitted etc , its hard to judge whether hes just trying to make a living or ripping you off .
but if he only gets on average 4 jobs a week, and has costs of £300 , then hes barely making a wage , even at these inflated prices.

for cylinders if carrying a mid range and security range of locks in all sizes and in both finishes , he has an expensive investment in stock as well , as this comes to a fair few bob, but without it he cant complete the job in a single visit incuring more costs.

there has been some good advice given in this thread by most who have contributed , and i urge you to take it all in , of course you wont , as most convince themselves that it will be different for them , and i hope for you that it is , so all that can really be said , is give it carefull thought and good luck with what ever you decide.

[lockey1963]

, need an edit button again,

if you are determined in your quest for total nde training and nothing else , as its purely nde that you want , then in the uk , there really is only one credible source of nde training that is left offering this and that is the training offered by a firm called safeventures , www.safeventures.com , these guys invented nde in the uk and in much of the world , Martin Newton , Benny Wells and john falle are responsible for most of the best nde training around the world and are the inventors and makers of most of the top nde tools in the game.

forget the rest you mentioned , if top end serious nde training is all that you seek, as the others will all leave you wanting and you will end up at safe ventures in the end.

it will certainly be the most relevent training to what you say you seek, and the highest quality you will find , but like the tools , its not cheap.

The MLA will train you to be a locksmith over time , but not an nde expert , and nde open up specialist , the vast majority of the rest of the training mentioned is much the same where ever you go and will leave you wanting if top end nde is what you seek, and in all honesty as much can be learnt if not more on basic entry here and on forums like this , than on many of the courses on offer in the private sector of this industry.

so honest advice is , if planning on setting up just an emergency lock out business in the uk, forget it and rethink your business model, but if you believe we are all wrong and you can make a healthy living from this in an overpopulated marketplace , then forget the rest and invest your money in training with safeventures as at least you will be getting the best training available in this field in the uk from the outset.

so good luck again , and final bit of advice from me , is like gambling , dont get carried away and only invest the time and money in this , that you can comfortably afford to lose.

sorry for the epic , The end !

[globallockytoo]

very well written advice lockey1963.

I couldnt have said it simpler (I could - but I'm not going to bust your balls).

[EmCee]

Thank you all for taking the time to post.

I'm away for the next couple of days but I will be mulling over everything that has been said.

bbs...

Cheers.

[Rickthepick]

Very true. I havent actually done a lock out for a few months now, All lock changing and upvc doors and repairing other peoples work lol

[Mark A]

Same as that.

Mark

[kendale]

Hi,
Lockey not only did you manage a whole paragraph you managed to write your whole epic without once mentioning the ICL.

NDE is ok if you are able to purchase picks for the new locks or you know where to purchase picks, for somebody setting up it could be very costly.

You say on average 10% of a general locksmiths work is on lock opening which would not justify the cost of purchasing the picks in the first place.

I have finally packed away my Trusty B & D with 8mm's which used to open anything and worked guaranteed.

Rather than recommend NDE anybody starting out now would be better off offering to fit electronic security such as the euros with audit trail downloads and key fob access systems, targeting large company's for big installations and spending a few days on one job rather than running around doing 2 bit jobs.

Nobody believed that cars would all be working on remotes or doors would all be made of poxy plastic, it was only a matter of a few years and the same is coming on domestic and commercial premises, you wont need keys it will all be electronic and nde picks will be redundant, lock opening by iphone software is the way to go? I never thought 12 months ago I would be able to watch my cctv by iphone but can now.

The answer for anybody starting in locksmithing now is get into the electronic side and find your niche in the market which will put you way ahead of the general locksmith in a few years time, just remember to back it up with the 5 year maintenance plan.

It seems every locksmith is complaining and gripes about the work situation or the extreme lack of it as the case may be, it is then time to change the situation and take another route in locksmithing.

Personally im glad to be out of general locksmithing, and glad I never took the expensive route into cars I will leave that to the AA etc.

I took the route of supplying & fitting electronic locks with 5 Year Maintenance contracts, then you dont have to worry about the next job for 5 years, I would recommend my route to anybody.
Regards

[lockey1963]

did i forget to mention ICL !

Kendale im assuming these posts were made prior to the 10pm smirnoff cut off ? or is this earlier now not doing pm call outs ? or is it a healthy living regime these days ? you used to swear by the smirnoff and nicotine diet.

glad you have found a niche and doing well at it and hope it achieves that move to warmer shores you aspired for.