Foley-Belsaw And Penn-Foster

[globallockytoo]

There are always multiple opinions on FB particularly. Most "correctly" trained locskmiths know full well that FB is a cookie cutter course.

But many FB graduates came to realize after completing the course, they still knew nothing, unfortunately evidenced in the quality of their work.

People think that locksmithing is their dream job, but in reality it is a job that constantly requires investment in yourself and your training. There are courses that can tell you how to do it, but there is no course that will match having a mentor to learn from/with.

FB wasnt designed by locksmiths. Yes they write everything down in a step by step guide, but they dont encourage you to think. You want to be a locksmith? Be Methodical!

Locksmithing mixes many parts of many trades, engineering, design, maintenance, boiler making, fitting and turning, business administration, architecture, carpentry, electronics, computers etc.

[TurnerGOFP]

If I could have a mentor I would but unfortunately their is not enough time for me to have one. I appreciate all the help but I plan on taking baby steps and proceeding with the Foley-Belsaw course.

[kpjones44]

I am also new to locksmithing although as a crypto tech with the Air Force I certainly opened my fair share of locks and safes. I took Penn Foster and finished it in two months. I did not do that to show off, I did it so I would have some sort of credential to join a local locksmith organization and hopefully find a mentor to show me the ropes.

Take the FB course and learn as much as you can that you already didn't know. When your tour is done, look for a locksmith group in your local area and ask for the requirements to join. I have found 99% of the locksmith professionals to be secure in their business and willing to help someone who wants to learn.

I know there is a love/hate relationship with ALOA, but you may want to look into a probationary membership. I did and it has opened a lot of doors in less than a month.

Good luck and
Semper Fi!

[TurnerGOFP]

Do you think I would be able to finish Foley-Belsaw in 4 months by only working on the weekends?

[unlisted]

Do you think I would be able to finish Foley-Belsaw in 4 months by only working on the weekends?

that would fully depend on your current skill level, how fast you can absorb new material, and your learning styles. Not one person can tell you how long it may/will take you. You say only weekend work, do you mean 14-16 hours each day on a weekend, or 2-3 hours? How much drive do you have to complete this?

There is way to many variables to give you a definite answer. For example, years ago, when I wrote my entrance exam for college, it took me 35 mins. We are given 3 hours to complete it- and the average completion time is 2 hours.

Everyone is different.

[TurnerGOFP]

I would say at least 8 hours a day on the weekends. Plus I would be working on it during the week whenever I had the opportunity but I couldn't really count that in there because my weekdays change so frequently and I never know what I have time for.

[ZoSo]

I just finished the FB Course. I used the payment plan. Meaning they will send out new materials each time they receive a payment. I sent in a double payment and got a double lesson.

The first few courses take less then 30 minutes to complete. If you can.. Send the new payment ASAP to keep everything fresh in your mind, for the few lessons. After that you will need a little more time for each lesson.

Took me 6 months to complete and still making the payments. They won't send my final certificate / some tools until I am paid in full.

In the meantime I started contacting local Locksmiths for advance training. even thinking of taking a MBA or ALOA courses. I may also have an apprenticeship lined up this spring.


I was going to signup for the Penn-Foster class, but noticed FB provides more tools for the trade.
And after talking with a few CML's they all agreed FB was the course of choice.


ZoSo

[TurnerGOFP]

So if you have finished the course then what tools do they still have to send you?

[wolf_from_wv]

I don't have experience with the Penn Foster, but I'm signed up for the Foley-Belsaw course. The first 15 lessons were pretty easy, now I'm starting the hands-on stuff.

[TurnerGOFP]

How many lessons does it even go to?

[nostromo]

Slow down, big daddy! There's life after AIT. You have a lot of time. I swear. Even while you're deployed, mail is delivered wherever you are, even the hot & sandy place. I speak from the experience of 5 years with 3d Marine Division as a Corpsman, then five years as a Comm Officer with a Fleet Hospital. FPO mail will get there. Really! Besides, just processing your initial enrollment will take a chunk of that 4 months. And you'll WANT to have something to do and to look forward to while you're deployed.

Plus, it's not just how fast YOU are or can be, it's also how fast the program turns your material around. I took the Little Falls course (way long ago) and would finish the lesson(s) package in a few days and send back the materials, then wait a few weeks for the next lesson(s). You work at THEIR pace.

While I haven't had the FB experience, I have had a chance to review the Penn-Foster material - and the impression is that it's not going into any more depth than any other mailorder or online course. Have you used Navy Knowledge Online or any online training like "Information Assurance" or dealing with "Trafficking in Persons"? It's like that. All that one of these courses can do is give you the working vocabulary, base knowledge and skills- then it's up to you to develop your abilities. Either by working for someone or collecting a pile of locks, doors, closers, keys, safes, car doors, etc and practicing, practicing, practicing. Impression every lock you can get your hands on several times, take locks and closers apart and put'em back together, map out a master key scenario and pin it up several times, etc.

As far as working for someone else, if you are new and have no significant experience, expect that the paycheck will be real low if anything at all. Because they are going to have to spend a lot of time helping you, teaching you, fixing what got broken, etc. Unless you get lucky and the shop has enough volume that they can start you off as a counter guy or key monkey. Not many big shops like that.

They are also keeping in the back of their mind that they are about to train someone who will become their competition. Happens a lot. You have to bring something to them that makes it worth THEIR while.

Speaking to tuition, I had the pleasure of using both USMC and Navy TA (I ran the Education Services Office for the Division Surgeon). USMC paper processing was about as much fun as trying to recquisition satellite parts from MotorT. They tended to apply the rules stringently - you had to show them very clear policy in writing that said they HAD to do it and HOW to do it - and with no margin for interpretation - to get what you wanted. Maybe things have gotten better.

The Navy has an "Secondary Naval Enlisted Classification" code for locksmithing, don't know if the Marines have secondary MOS's like that. I'm pretty sure they don't assign Marines using it. Anyway, every base you are on will have a civil service or contract locksmith, so the chances of your getting that kind of assignment are slim to none. Unless you are stuck for a few weeks somewhere awaiting either seperation or a return to duty status- then you'd probably want to make some freinds in Public Works instead of painting rocks white.

Looking over STI- that looks pretty decent. Not as expensive, but you have to get your own tools and locks, which you will want to do anyway. You could sign up pretty quickly and they clearly say "online" in the material which sounds like a buzzword for your ESO. The material looks like it goes deeper than PF. And it looks linked into the certification world.

But whatever way you go you'll do OK in the long run as long as you get the experience afterwards. That's the critical part.

[TurnerGOFP]

With the Foley-Belsaw course they send you a bunch of equipment and expect you to do hands on training which I will be unable to do on deployment. Plus when I'm deployed most of my free time is going to be spent studying knowledge for meritorious boards. How many holes are in an MRE cracker? 81! I know that is just a bearing question but it's that much better if I actually know the answer. Yes we have something similar to Navy Knowledge Online called Marine Net. Nothing has gotten any better money wise with the Marine Corps. They are still stingy with their money as well they should be.

[wolf_from_wv]

There are 30 lessons in the Foley Belsaw Locksmithing course.

[TurnerGOFP]

That shouldn't be too hard. I figured their would be more.

[nostromo]

You can do the lessons while deployed. Really. Except for keymaking if you have no power source. All the stuff can fit in your footlocker if you WANT it to. Leave out the silly gear like kevlar and camelbacks if you need even more space.