tumbler blocking system

[98AB49DC5A]

This idea comes from pushbutton combination locks(simplex, unican) in those locks there are several geared tumblers and one gear, common to all the tumblers. each tumbler is missing a few teeth where it would mesh with the common gear. When you push a button the corresponding tumbler turns about 20 degrees and, in doing so turns the common gear. Any subsequent button presses turn this gear, as it now meshes with the common gear.

This principle is applicable to disk tumbler and lever tumbler locks. it would provide a high degree of annoyance to anyone picking said locks as turning one tumbler would affect all others. it would also ensure combinations are locked in.

the following image links show this principle applied to disk tumbler locks.
controller disk http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts274D9
variation disk http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVuTtKS
obviously there would be some way for the key to turns the disks and there are probably some problems with this implementation of the idea

This idea is applicable to any lock where the tumblers are acted upon all at once(lever tumbler, disk tumbler) but not where they are acted upon sequentially(pin tumbler)

[Rickthepick]

yeah that would be a to open!

the same design in a lever mortise lock would be incredible

[Rickthepick]

all it would need is a reset mechanism

[98AB49DC5A]

It would be pretty easy to make a lever lock based on this principle. some existing high security lever locks have serrated tumblers. They are basically geared. you could just put a gear above and beside the lever pack. as the levers are lifted they mesh with the common gear. It would be a simple retrofit. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the levers will be lifted uniformly. A high cut will lift a lever a lot during the first couple degrees of rotation but the lift per degree will drop as the key is turned more(like the sin function in trigonometry). Generally all the key's cuts contact the levers at the same time and simply lift the levers differing amounts. I butchered the above explanation so I'll try ahain. My concern is that as soon as a lever meshes with the common gear it is locked together with all the other meshing levers. This might lift it faster than it would normally go so that it is supported by the common gear rather than the keycut under it. keys might have to be cut somewhat differently to take this into account.

anyways here's my model
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TslfywJ
The yellow stuff is immobile. The red lever would be lifted by a key (not shown) as soon as it is lifted 5 degrees is begins to mesh with the common gear(orange). In a real lock there would be multiple levers. each being lifted to mesh with the common gear after a certain amount of key rotation. this aligns all the notches in the levers beside the green post which can then enter the lever pack. a false key does not lign the gates and one or more levers block it. the serrations serve as both gear teeth to allow it to mesh and as pick resistance. They currently serve the latter function in high security locks. This system would prevent single lever picking while most high security lever locks with serrated tumblers only delay this attack. Conventional pick tool designs might have to be modified as binding levers might rest above the keycuts that would normally support them. that would increase the complexity of the tools required to attack this lock.

[98AB49DC5A]

nearly forgot. the blue squarish thing above the common gear ensures that is comes to rest at a position not blocking the levers. if it were not present the common gear could and has come to rest at such a blocking position. The blue block prevents this.

[Rickthepick]

This would be overcome using H gated levers as legge and some of the yale locks do

[98AB49DC5A]

This would be overcome using H gated levers as legge and some of the yale locks do

What do you mean. What would be overcome. the need for a reset mechanism, key cutting problems, the Picking difficulty, preventing the common gear from coming to rest at a blocking position?

[SnowyBoy]

I like the idea. But since each disc doesn't start off turning at the same time it would need to have a blank area on the disc. The discs with lets call it a 1 cut (this discs does full rotation to line up for sidebar) then for arguments sake the next disc with a 9 cut (this 9 cut disc would do say a 20 degree rotation). All the while the disc with the one cut (full rotation) is travelling towards the sidebar, the disc with the 9 cut will just be sitting there till it meshes for about 2 teeth and everything stops. There would have to be a blank area on that discs too, which could allow you to feel where the other discs mesh with the cog and it gives the code away.

To pick it as an example you would do a similar method to what I think is a flaw in design on Abloy Protecs....... all you do is turn the disc you feel is the control disc (or this case the disc you feel has meshed all the way to the back), nip it back off a little and the the other discs are free to move.

I might have misunderstood stuff, so sorry if I did.

[98AB49DC5A]

I think I understand what you mean. This design is supposed to fix that flaw. in the protec you have no way of applying turning force to the plug without the DBS(Disk Blocking System) pushing a rod into the disk pack(Due to mis implementation(I think)this system dosen't work right see http://www.tjweaver84.com/protecpicking.php). This rod interferes with feeling for binding. The system doesn't block or lock the disks tightly. This common gear system is supposed to fix that. Any disks that mesh with it are locked loosely together with all the other disks meshing with it. there's some play but you can't move one disk relative to another

let's say key has cuts 1-5 1=90degree rotation 5=no rotation
if the disks are positioned at 345341 you cant move any disk without turning the others if you turn the first disk at position 3 from 3 to 2 all the other disks meshing are moved back on as well the end result is 234231. you also can't turn any of the disks further because doing so would push the disk at 5 through the common gear which can't turn any further. this kind of system wouldn't prevent picking altogether but it would make it a pain. I hope this is sort of clearer.

I'm not sure what you meant about finding where the disks mesh with the cog. the meshing has nothing to do with the key combination. All it does is lock the disks together. it's kind of like in the protec, the dbs does nothing but block/ apply turning force to the plug. the upper surfaces of the disks where the gates are determines the correct combo.