Best Alloy For Lock Picks

[udanis]

I was looking to get some custom lock pick water-jet cut. What alloy do you guy's recommend? I was looking at 1095 spring steel or 6-4 Titanium both in .015". Dose this sound reasonable?

Thanks
Alex

[blake1803]

.015 is a bit thin, I'd think. Someone else will have to back me up on this, but I -think- that is what Peterson uses for their Slender Gem (and the rest of their slender picks), which I personally find to be a bit too pliant. I've never actually bent a slender Peterson, but I always feel like I'm just on the verge of doing so...

[Shrub]

What alloy do you guy's recommend?

NONE,

You should not be useing alloy to make picks,



Research some before posting the lazy way, if you research seriously you will find exactly what material to use,

Titanium? waste of time,

Use stainless steel is my suggestion but again i advise you actually research up a bit,

[udanis]

And I did reaserarch. An alloy is a mixture of metals. You half to use and alloy to make lock picks. If you just go out and say stainless steel, steel, or spring steel that isn't helpful, there are so many different alloys with so many different properties.


A little further down.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel#Comparison_of_standardized_steels)

[freakparade3]

I feel a roasting coming......... Shrub is lighting his torch....... It ain't gonna be pretty.

[JackNco]

I feel a roasting coming......... Shrub is lighting his torch....... It ain't gonna be pretty.

should be fun to watch though

[UWSDWF]

And I did reaserarch. An alloy is a mixture of metals. You half to use and alloy to make lock picks. If you just go out and say stainless steel, steel, or spring steel that isn't helpful, there are so many different alloys with so many different properties.


A little further down.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel#Comparison_of_standardized_steels)

If you goto a metal shop and ask for spring steel and they look at you blankly... goto a different shop

otherwise look for 440 or 420... those are your best choices in stainless

[Afisch]

The sping steel would be a good idea, i'd say that Titanium is a waste of time. 0.15 i belive to be the Slimline width for SO (correct me if im wrong). As for

You half to use and alloy to make lock picks.

presuming this is. "You have to use an alloy to make lock picks" Titanium is not an alloy. I can't see them expecting you to specify your exact carbon percentage, chromium, nickle and trace metal amounts. Sping steel is what you need.

[udanis]

Titanium is not an alloy

But there are alloys of titanium, that is what i was aiming at. I was going to order the metal off of mastercarr and have it drop shipped to the waterjet place. If you look on master car they have 6? different types of spring steel.

[Shrub]

Alloys are as you say a mix of metals, i advise you do not use alloys,

I advise you do not use titanium,

I advise you use stainless steel but some prefer spring steel,

If useing stainless steel and water cutting i would suggest you go the whole hog and do them in 316, i make all my tools in 316

If you want a easy way simply use hacksaw blades but the jet will need setting up more accuritely,

If you want to use spring steel then you need to select the hardest one that your supplier can get but basically they are all quite simular in properties once you get to the scale needed for picks, i would suggest maybe a EN8 or 9 would be what your after,

A little snippet from steelstip.uk

Spring Steel Strip is quite literally, steel used in the production of springs. This range of steels normally contains between 0.40% and 0.80% carbon, with alloying elements added for the higher integrity products such as automotive clutches etc. Coil springs are normally produced from steel wire, whilst steel strip is used for the production of flat springs. Spring steels are also used in a number of applications where hardness or resistance to bending is required, such as lock parts or tools.Spring steels are supplied either in the annealed condition for forming and blanking, or in the ready hardened, more commonly referred to as hardened and tempered. Steel supplied in the annealed condition is usually hardened after the stamping and forming operation in component form. The choice of supply condition is determined by the component production method, as ready hardened steel is difficult to process. Hardened and tempered strip is more suitable for flat components or where the production is primarily laser cutting or plain blanking. Hardening in component form is usually however more expensive than the premium paid for ready hardened steel. The hardening and heat treatment of steel is a complex area of metallurgy and beyond the scope of this site, but links for further reference can be located on the right side of the page.

As i say i dont use spring steel for picks but some do, i advise stainless as i say but its your choice on what you use maybe ask the actual engineers doing the work for you what they suggest,

I wont question the nessacity of a custom set of picks from someone with so little posts as you may be a very good picker only just visiting site, but if your a noob can i suggest you lay off the fancy un-tested shapes and simply buy a set, it will be far cheaper and more productive, the cost of what your doing must be phenominal for one set of picks, if you are asking here for commercial purposes then you really shouldnt be doing it at all if you dont even have any idea on what metal to use,

Finally, please do not quote a website to me that any munchkin can edit to say whatever they want it to, wiki is all well and good until you start to realise the errors made on it,

[TheNerd389]

First, to Shrub: stainless steel is by definition an alloy, as is any other form of steel. If it isn't, it's called iron, not steel, and iron would make some really crappy picks. In fact, stainless 316, which you suggested, is actually a pretty serious alloy, with 16-18% chromium, 10-14% nickle, and only 61.8-72% iron. Oh, and I personally see no problem with making a forum post as part of doing research. After all, why reinvent the wheel?



Second, as to the question regarding what alloy to use:


Low/medium carbon steels (~0.4%-~1.25%): Avoid if possible. these offer the worst performance of any materials in this list. Some medium carbon steels may work okay, but not nearly as well as spring steels (almost exclusively high-carbon) or stainless.

Spring steels(~1.2%-~2.0%): If you go with a spring steel, try to stick with something similar to ASTM A228. I've used this for years now with much success, but I would recommend a thicker sheet. Also, if you do use this, make sure it's not full-hard. If it is, then you will be fishing the tip out of a lock for weeks. Instead, go with spring-temper or half-hard. Also, if one of these alloys is to soft for any reason, just do a good quench-and-temper. You can make these alloys far harder than you could ever want.

Stainless steels: If you don't have an issue with the price, this is a better option than spring steel. 302 is a cheaper option that should do just fine, unless you regularly bend the picks into odd shapes (not smart). 316 is a higher performance alloy than 302, but it's not a standard material, and as such will be more expensive.

Titanium Alloys: These don't offer much, especially when you can easily match the strength with spring and stainless steels. These are normally reserved for weight-critical applications such as aircraft and high-speed, unbalanced machines. They are meant to match the strength of steel, but at the density of aluminum. The only respectable reasons to make a set of picks out of this is as a show-piece, or in some weird case that the weight of the pick makes a significant difference in how well you can feel your way around, as may be the case with some ultra high-end locks. In that case, you would want the 6-4 alloy just as you suggested, or perhaps ATI 425, which offers almost identical, if not slightly superior performance in most aspects, and is notably easier to machine.



In general, picks should be tougher (read: less brittle, softer, etc.) than the torque wrench, with the only exception being a spring-assisted torque wrench. I bring all of my picks to a spring temper (yes, even the stainless ones can be spring tempered), but I only bring the wrench to the tougher end of the yellow/orange temper region. Also, keep in mind that people have different preferences about the tools they use. You may decide you like something springier than the next guy. Just bear in mind that as the wrench/picks get springier, they also absorb more of the clicks, making it harder to feel your way around.

for reference, the temper colors can be found here: http://www.anvilfire.com/index.php?body ... ilfire.com

The chart is for carbon steels only, but the only difference for most stainless steels is that the same colors occur at high temperatures. Also, the properties are primarily color-related at a very fundamental level. Blue temper will have the same general properties, even if in one steel blue occurs 200 degrees hotter.

Hope that answered your questions!

[Josh K]

No titanium, it's soft and will bend. Might sound cool, but in a lot of applications it's worthless because it can't be hardened.

Nicely heat treated 1095 would be good. I don't know of any good stainless steels, your best bet would be simple carbon.

[drop dead fred]

Failing those go with Gold or silver if your after strengh, me i'd go with stainless steel

[rontgens]

Gold? Strength? I thought that pure gold was very soft?

What about this Carpenter Custom 465 Stainless steel.
http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1612

Sounds like it would make the ultimate pick material to me? but I could be wrong...very wrong, I bet it's also more expensive than ever too.

If I'm right though someone please make me a really cool pick with it

[Josh K]

Gold? Strength? I thought that pure gold was very soft?

What about this Carpenter Custom 465 Stainless steel.
http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1612

Sounds like it would make the ultimate pick material to me? but I could be wrong...very wrong, I bet it's also more expensive than ever too.

If I'm right though someone please make me a really cool pick with it

If you think that's bad, look at the Inconel 713C

# Carbon 0.20
# Manganese 1.0 max
# Sulfur 0.015 max
# Silicon 1.0 max
# Chromium 11.0-14.0
# Molybdenum 3.5-5.5
# Titanium 0.25-1.25
# Aluminum 5.5-6.5
# Iron 5.0 max
# Columbium + Ta 1.0-3.0
# Nickel remainder

Like I said, nicely treated 1095 would probably be the best.