Database of locks

[liquidz]

I've started working on a database of locks. The purpose of it is to have a description, picture, make, and model. At the same time providing a rating of the lock in three areas (Picking difficulty, Physical toughness, and Overall quality).

I am working on a web interface so that other people can add locks to the database (as I sure do not have knowledge on every lock in existance), and allow them to rate locks already in the database, and provide their own comments.

Hopefully if it works as I expect it to, it will be a great refrence for everyone.

I was wondering what everyone else thought about it, or if you had any suggestions/comments.

[CaptHook]

I think its a great idea, added bonus would be to make the more common locks such as kwikset deadbolts, master 3s etc into a sticky with info on their "personallity" traits.
Chuck

[Romstar]

The problems with a database of this nature are extreme.

First off, many lock manufactures chage the internal layout, or scheme of their locks while retaining the same exterior casing.

This is extremely common in the case of lever locks, and even common enough in standard pin tumbler locks.

Yale alone has several locks that appear to be the same model, but in fact have several noticable differences. Differences you weill not be able to identify until you try picking the lock, or remove it from the door.

Dimple locks are another example of mechanisms that can chage internally, but remain the same outside. There is an intermediate rage of Medeco locks that is somewhere between the first generation, and the bi-axial that have most of the characteristics of he bi-axial, but look identical to the first gen locks.

Further, as you develop the database you will discover the need to extend quite a number of years backwards for a variety of given makes. Also, as each new year goes by, subsequent changes will be made by different companies.

I can tell you now that you have your work cut out for you.

Romstar

[liquidz]

First off, many lock manufactures chage the internal layout, or scheme of their locks while retaining the same exterior casing.

I've been thinking about that. If I understand what you are talking about to put it in perspective of a car, the equivalent of a 2003 Ford Mustang vs a 2004 Ford Mustang... Pretty much the same thing, just a couple of tweaks here and there, and a different part or two at best. Kinda like revisions if I understand you.

I am hoping that the people who "Review" the locks will make note of those kinds of changes in the locks.

An example of this is I would add an a pad lock and mention that the shackle is x size. Someone else can come behind me and review it as well and mention that it also comes in sizes y,z, and a.

[tastyfish]

it would be a verry usefull resourse to have... but as romstar said you would defanatly have your work cut out for you.

but if you got it to work(and people said most of the locks details) then it would be great, just hard to get to work

[liquidz]

I like a challenge, I have been working on it all weekend, I think I might be somewhere between 15-20% done (I keep getting distracted by people) but it's moving slow but steady.

I saved alot of time by having all the user accounts and information handled by the forum software on my site. So the forum accounts are what the database accounts are. It's kinda slick.

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions as to what it should be called? I was thinking of "The Lockbox" in refrence to the box full of locks that we all have lol.

[Hak]

"The Lockbox"..thats pretty cool, i like it

[Frightcrawler]

I think it's a great idea. It would be very helpful. I came out of lurking just to say this.

First post. Hi all.

[locksmistress]

I think it's a great idea - huge, for sure - but worth a shot.

Is it possible to include cross references? Like different brands that actully have the same key profile? I've come across a few that I wish I could remember now... like Emtek is Schlage C and Dexter takes a Kwikset... or Arrow? See, wouldn't it be handy if I knew?

I have a card catalog with some of this stuff in it but I would definately contribute to a site where I could record such things as I learned them.

[Varjeal]

Many of you will wonder who that 1 "No" came from, so I'll dispel the guessing and suprise many. Hehehe..

As I wander through my "office" and glance under my computer desk, I see shelves packed full of volumes and binders, books and brochures full of locks, hardware and information. As the years go on this collection has expanded into CD's and disks, cluttering my desk.

As much as I dream someday of having the worlds entire lock collection at my fingertips, reality comes crashing in like Hitler at a Jewish wedding.

Now, I'm not normally the one to say this or that task is impossible, but this proposed task could be equal to Noah trying to contain The Flood.

Is A database of locks possible to create. Yes, it is. Is a complete database of locks possible? No.

Here's why.

There are quite literally hundreds of lock brands currently being manufactured in the world today. Hundreds are no longer made. Many are by names you know and trust. Lots are not. Some manufacturers are quite willing to produce information on the popular lines of their locks, some manufacturers will not produce information on some types of locks, and some will not produce any information on any of their locks in fear of reprisals.

Is it sounding a bit complex yet? Well, there's further to go.

I thoroughly respect you for your drive and ambition, and the first part of your database sounds very realistic: description, pictures, make and models, all good stuff and relatively simple to get. However, there are some issues you would have to address BEFORE you started such a database:

1: Who quantifies picking difficulty?
2. Who qualifies physical toughness and what set of standards do you use?
3. Same with quality.

These three issues make the next part of your potential database extremely dangerous; that is, a web interface that allows other people to add.

You have good motives, but I think you see already the difficulty that lies therein.

My suggestion to you, to help you undertake this monumental, colossal, and impossible mission is a borrowed one.

"Divide and conquer."

Good luck, and I do mean that in the most sincere way possible.

[liquidz]

I have been trying to figure out descriptions for each value. For example picking for now I just rate kinda like this (I don't have it all memorized so don't quote me lol)

1 Anyone can pick this lock
2 A little bit of lock picking knowledge is required
3 A good amount of skill is needed, but not very difficult
4 This lock is difficult to pick, and will take time
5 This lock is very difficult to pick, and might not be worth the effort

I need to work on the wording for them, but the infrastructure is in place I just have to figure out the wording. I am hoping to get some help from some beta testers.

It's around 40-50% done, I want to add in ways to update ratings and the such, then it's going to be alot of tweaking.

The most important thing is that I might come up with some good ideas, yet miss some very crucial ones, so I will need to round up some beta testers that are willing to provide some feedback, and suggestions. I am worried that I might make it too simple, however I want to balance it between simple and detailed as I would like to see the general public use this as a tool to choose the best lock for them.

[WhiteHat]

I guess one criteria that could be used for picking dificulty is the point that it would be cheaper for a locksmith to drill it or break something rather than spend time picking it.

having said that - it is still subjective - if you've got a really cheap door - you may be able to replace the door for the price of the lock etc...

[kodierer]

Actually, it may be impossible to have all, or most locks on this database, but a large quantity wouldn't hurt, I believe you are thinking of something similiar to textfiles.com, only easier to navigate, and for locks only. Another suggestion would be to look up pattents for locks in the library of congress, they may be of some help. I hear you can get the library on CD rom these days.

[S3rratedSp00L]

Your database idea sounds like a good one to me... Definitely a lot of work, definitely a lot of time, and defnitely incomplete, but the quality and usefulness of information is what matters. Will it be useful!? I would say, yes!

If you put quality information into it, then it will spit quality information out! Collecting information on a per lock basis is a good idea because when people like myself get a new lock, I like to look up the information about it if I can. Having a lot in one place would be nice! I would not rely solely on any one source of information, but it would be nice if I could find most of it in one spot, though!

One potential problem I see is providing useful things such as keyways! That's really a whole new database that needs to be related to the database of locks. A relational database such as MySQL or anything similar would allow you to do that, but you really have to do it right the first time before it grows! (Which is why you posted the message, of course. Good thinking!) So making a database of locks, a database of keyways, and a database of anything else that would be considered an entity in database terminology would be best if it were going to get very large! ...and I hope it would, so as to provide a lot of useful information!

You might also make it something as basic as just a database of locks and comments, but then you really just have a message board!? Some reasons that you should still make your database in any form is that you could provide more general security information rather than just picking. You could provide diagrams and pictures of things that may be against the rules on some message boards and let information flow more freely. People could add things that you may not have known about to make for more complete information rather than obscuring things that a lot of people already know! You could provide useful information for free that other people try to charge for when they should not. ...and a million more reasons..

I feel that the aim for your database should be to provide detailed and accurate information on many locks rather than incomplete information on as many as possible. Maybe keep a running list of locks that you need info for and don't add locks to the database until you have good data to go with them! Easier said than done, of course..

Basically, don't just end up with a list of locks and no information, I guess.

Be careful not to violate copyrights or anything of that nature, of course.. It may be pretty hard to provide useful info without violating a copyright or two, unfortunately.

I would highly recommend that you include bypass methods that are closely related to the lock itself and provide information on how to modify locks to prevent these bypass methods from working! This would be of great benefit to the general public as well as the hobby/locksmith community! Something as simple as a plate behind the cylinder will protect a lot of locks from bypass techniques! Why should the public be kept in the dark? Where there is a by-pass, there is a way to protect against it! (Counter-bypass modifications!? hehe) Just a suggestion. Provide any useful lock modifications that increase security and maybe some tips on what not to do because of decreased security. So-called High Security locks sometimes aren't. People should know this stuff before they buy.

Anyway, I think that a lock database could be useful to everyone if it provides good and accurate information. Verification might be a problem and it would never be complete, but it would grow to contain information on locks that people actually come in contact with as well as some that they might in the future. Taking some of the mystery out of how locks work and maybe some of the fear out of people who don't understand since they could have the info conveniently at their fingertips to protect themselves properly.

Wow! what a mouthful, I hope you find some of that useful!

[liquidz]

Everyones posts have been very helpfull, I forgot about the multiple keyway possibilty. I need to think of someway to handle that. One possibility is to assume that all the locks are standard issue right out of the box with nothing changed. However sometimes models can change in that respect as well.

The only way I can think of right now to handle that would be to force the lock submitter to check if the keyway already exists in the database, and then add it if it does'nt. Once all that is done he/she can then procede to add the actual lock to the database.

I will probably add on the bypass methods part of it as well once I get the core lock information down. I will just make sure that when someone submits a bypass that they include a suggestion for correcting it. That's keeps everyone out of legal trouble.