Are European Locks harder to pick than American?

[Antique key maker]

Don't have experience with European locks but are they harder or easier to pick than American locks?

[Eyes_Only]

Some of them are and a lot of it seems to have to do with the fact that euro lock keyways are more paracentric and restrictive than locks produced in the US making it more difficult to move your pick in them.

Check out the center picture in Barry Well's latest blog, http://blackbag.nl/ . The wards in that lock seems to overlap each other and I can't see how a standard pick tool can be easily maneuvered in them.

[Schuyler]

I would generally say that they are harder to pick, but when I donated a boatload of American locks to the Dutch Open a few years ago a lot of good pickers on their side of the Atlantic had some real trouble picking ours. I would still say theirs are harder, though, as they have insurance standards that require them to have certain grades of locks on their doors in order to get buildings & homes insured.

[Rickthepick]

generally our euros have very tight keyways.

A lot of them however are cheap and easy to rake open.

Our BS euro's are pretty tough as to meet insurance standards.

All depends on the make of lock, but i rarely see anything harder than a kaba gege out on the job

[huxleypig]

I got a Kaba GeGe on my house and whilst not being the best lock in the world, I do find it tricky to pick. High next to low levers seem to be common with these.

Better than most run of the mill euros out there anyway.

[huxleypig]

I meant high next to low tumblers! I don't think Kaba make lever locks. Incidentally, I got a Kaba 2010K padlock the other day. Easier than I'd hoped for from Kaba but still no breeze...

[Josh K]

I really have to work over a couple more euro profile cylinders. I have more trouble with them then any other lock.

[sir lot is here]

I think its what you get use two, euro's are fairly easy (most of) but the americans locks ect are a pain in the ass

[rphillips52]

Don't have experience with European locks but are they harder or easier to pick than American locks?

Keyways of European cylinder locks are often more constricted.
There are also many lever locks. Individually, with the right kit, they vary, but most modern ones are quite a challenge.
Even more of a challenge, though, is the variety of sizes which might be encountered. Much more kit (or adapting of kit) is needed to be equipped to open whatever might be encountered. And kit for lever locks is much more expensive to buy/difficult to make than the few picks needed to tackle the pin tumbler locks nearly universal in USA. Often it is helpful to use a database to help identify a lever lock; these usually also indicate suitable methods of opening.

[ARF-GEF]

Often it is helpful to use a database to help identify a lever lock; these usually also indicate suitable methods of opening.

? What do you mean by that? I'm eagerly looking for that database, showing suitable methods for opening.

I agree with the restrictive keyway part. Even lower quality European locks tend to have paracentric keyways. Not to mention better Euro manufacturers like EVVA or the GEGE, GERA.
I've found lever locks are primarily used in Italy and Great Britain. I have rarely seen them in eastern Europe or in german speaking countries.
(apart from of course safe lock and stuff like that, but we're talking about door locks, right?)



(BTW this is the week of necromancers right? This it the 2nd or 3rd thread which got recently revived after many years. )

[ARF-GEF]

So come to think about it I think lever locks are also used more in Spain and I've just read that so are they in South America.
I'm not sure, whether you are comfortable revealing where you are from or where have you seen many lever locks, but it would be interesting.

[dicey]

Well many German lockpickers claim that our cylinders here like Wilka etc. are sooooo easy to pick. Bosnianbill told me it is not easy at all. Well if you have some training and if you are operating on a decent level you will be able to open them quite fast of course. But we are talking about picking under lab. conditions here.

[GWiens2001]

How easy or difficult a particular lock type is to pick likely depends on your experience. If you learned in the UK, you probably have experience with lever locks. If you learned in the US, there are plenty of pin tumbler locks and more open keyways. Portugal or Brazil, cruciform locks will not be unusual. Finland has many disc detainers.

What I am getting at is that the German pickers likely 'grew up' picking the German locks, and therefore find them easier.

Gordon

[bembel]

Compared to other euro locks, Wilkas aren't the toughest locks around. But then I could say the same about Abus or many others and they still can give you a hard time.

Some euro keyways might be tighter, but euro picks are also somewhat slimmer. Sometimes it helps to turn the pick sidewards to overcome an obstructive keyway or simply use a flat hook.

P.S. Schuyler mentioned that he brought a "boatload of locks" to the Dutch Open. This was years ago, but I remember these Schlage locks very well (I still have one, thanks Schuyler). I never picked a Schlage before that day and even if they are not the toughest US locks around, they weren't as easy as expected. I could only open a few of them in the contest.

[dicey]

You are still picking them under lab conditions. Bill is a decent picker and if he says the european stuff is not easy to pick I believe him. Maybe you are just such a good picker at such a decent level that you forgot that this also takes A LOT A regular training and time!