"Scotty's" Rim cylinder question

[Mad Mick]

I got an old Scotty's rim cylinder from a door on the scrap pile at work. Having cleaned and lubed it, then picked it, I wanted to strip and repin it.

After picking again and unscrewing the tailpiece, the plug would not come out...it moves about a half mil, then becomes stiff. The cylinder has pinning holes at the bottom, which are blanked off. Regardless of this, I feel that the plug should come out. Is there anyone familiar with this lock brand who could suggest something I may have missed?

Thanks,
Mick.

P.S. Since I don't know where this lock originates from, I didn't know whether this post belongs here, or the European section. Mods, please move if required.

[Chucklz]

In the US, many Master padlock cylinders are secured not with a snap ring, but rather by a small "crimp" of the outer hull. A careful inspection of the back of your cylinder will see if you have something similar.

[Mad Mick]

Yeah Chuck, I looked for all the obvious methods, but this thing doesn't have any other way of securing the plug other than the locking ring and detent pin, as found in cr*p such as 'Truguard' etc. You know, the ones where you have to depress the pin before you can unscrew the knurled ring. Once this ring is removed, the plug should come out (presuming the pins are picked/key is in).

The only possible scenario I can think of, is that there may be a blind pin holding the plug into the cylinder (kinda like a Master #140). Because I cleaned this cyl on the wire wheel, I'm now not likely to see any discolouration where a pin may have been used.

Thanks for the pointer though.
As an aside to this lock, for those who wish to remove the plug from a crimped Master lock, instead of spreading the crimp, just align the bottom of the keyway with the notch. Use a follower as normal, and the plug will come out.

[Chucklz]

Is the cylinder a fair bit longer than you think it would need to be for the key to operate it properly? I'm reminded of Yale style interchangeable cores. They are pinned for 7 pins, but keyed for 6. The "control" key operates the 6 operating chambers and additional 7th pin.

[Mad Mick]

The cyl seems to be of the standard length for a five pin plug. Pin counting with a half diamond doesn't really leave any room for a sixth pin before touching the tailpiece. I did a Google for "Scotty's" and came up with mostly garbage, nothing pertaining to this lock. If I can't get any positive info (not that I'm knocking any suggestions so far) I'll prolly take a soft mallet and knock the bejesus out of it until it yields. You all have seven days until this lock 'gets it'. Who wants to be the hero?

[locksmistress]

I am not familiar with the Scotty brand.

That said, I have a regular customer who brings in Corbin I/C and about half of them get the bejeezus whacked out of them. They go together with a C-clip at the end and you can actually see that the plug is ever so slightly widened at the end. I usually take my wire brush to them afterwards to get them to go back in (not to the shearline though - that's bad!). I've had a couple that I've had to file to get out.

I can't explain the physics of the situation, they turn freely, but it takes a hammer to get the dang things apart. I think it may have to do with teeny little pressure that's exerted by the C-clip and the driver against the 1/16" bit that sticks out the back every time somebody opens the lock and uses their key to pull the door open. It's only brass...

This company has been bringing me about half a dozen of these cylinders a week for about 3 years and thus far my methods have not produced any failures on their end.

[Mad Mick]

Thanks for that 'mistress, although I've held off with the mallet for now. After further inspection, I wonder whether the faceplate may be holding the plug into the cyl because of a flange on the plug (this is solid brass cyl with a bright faceplate crimped over it). There is a lip which goes into the bore in the cyl where the plug face sits...maybe my description is a little confusing, see below:



Does that make sense, or should I just 'give it some' with a mallet? I don't want to ruin a good lock through my own ignorance.

Thanks for the input so far folks,
Mick.

[alias]

Well my quick googling (I love a mystery )turned up a Scotty's hardware chain and a rim cylinder as a product line. Perhaps they do a 'home brand' line of locks and door furniture? Wouldn't cost much to get the escutcheon plates branded and attached to no-name cylinders...not that that's any help in any way shape or form.... /notmuchofahero

[locksmistress]

Mad Mick -

If what's going on is actually what's depicted in your picture, can you perceive a way around it? It seems that if the face plate is designed to be removable then it will pop off with little to no damage with pressure - say via hammer? Or teeny scredriver, if you prefer. Like a B162. Or Medeco DB with that little wire.

If the face plate is not removable without significant aesthetic of functional damage, then it it not 'rekeyable'. I'd think this would be possible - more and more cheap cores are going more and more 'disposable'.

I have some Schlage knockoffs that I can't repin because lab pins are too large in diameter (as are factory originals). A2 pins are too narrow - much slop. Very frustrating. Very useless.

I love locks... I really do. And Art and Finesse...

Oh but I also realy love Hammers!

Torn. Truly torn. Glad it's not my decision.

[Romstar]

Oh, this woman is a jewel, 'tis true she is so.

Who so oft, said 'Fraility, Thy name is woman' doth not see the works of such as she.

Tho hammer, and drill the pick and bow, such works methinks dost shimmer and glow.

The work sayest you? Nay say I, for such works are more worthy even than I.

The jewel's the thing, for never is more delicate work to be seen.

Go hither forthwith, and tell all who will hear. The lockmistress's shop contains treasure, hear hear....


Now, anyone who can figure out what it is that I am trying to say will win the prize.
Romstar

[Chucklz]

"Though this be madness, yet there is method
in 't. "

[Mad Mick]

Methinks a name swapping doth be the order of the day!
Henceforth, Ye shall be named Mad Rom and Y shall be named Mickstar!
Now go forth and prepare my gruel and mead. *hands Mad Rom three lashes*

[Mad Mick]

'mistress, I'm not sure if that is exactly the problem, just an idea. The faceplate is pretty well crimped over the rim of the cyl...I suppose a couple 'o taps, will show if there is indeed a flange on the plug, the result being a distorted faceplate around the edge of the plug...

Oh but I also realy love Hammers!

Me too! I have a drawer in my tool box dedicated to them...wanna see some pics? LOL

[Romstar]

"That he's mad, 'tis true, 'tis true 'tis pity, And pity 'tis 'tis true."

Hamlet, Act 2, scene 2.

Dost thou think me daft? A player perhaps, upon yonder stage, fretting my hour, yet heard no more?

A sound, a fury, a great and wonderous thing, that thou dost hear from out my lips.

Come, let us sit upon the ground, and tell OUR sad tales. Not of the death kings, but of men and the hubris that becomes them.

Romstar

[Mad Mick]

I'm just glad that your epics aren't written in Shakespearian verse