who sells trade price master key suites?

[Rickthepick]

I currently use off the shelf master keyed locks for small suites but have recently had an enquiry about something a bit bigger and in need of higher security.

Does anyone know to a good supplier of decent quality mastered locks at a reasonable price?

[globallockytoo]

write and build your own master key systems. It is one of the cornerstones of locksmithing that has been done for thousands of years. It is bread and butter that locksmiths can count on forever, because every situation is different and rarely are 2 systems similar.

Many of the lock manufacturers prefer to build and sell their own master key systems, effectively blocking locksmiths at every opportunity, until such time as the customer requires a repair to just one cylinder and they call in a locksmith who doesnt contact the system holder and screws up the system.

Get yourself a restricted keyway and build your own systems requiring the client to come back to you for service.

Keep the big guys out of it. It will be cheaper and more lucrative for you at the same time.

[Eyes_Only]

I agree with global. Knowing how to build your own master key system instead of just buying a pre-built system to me is comparable to choosing to pick a lock with a hook pick rather than relying on a pick gun. Sooner or later you'll run into a "lock" a "pick gun" can't handle.

[Rickthepick]

As much as some of us would like to do that its just not cost effective to do so, its not very often i do this kind of work.

If i had a few high earning contracts then definitely.... but i dont

[yng_pick]

Do you have universal pin kits, or kits to the common locks you buy?

The cost is very little, just blanks and pins, about the same as regular rekeys (i'm assuming just standard pin tumblers)

And could cost a good deal less than having the distributor do it, and be fairly profitable when you charge for the master keying. Unless you don't have kits, but even then, if you have a source for pins, buying bags in just the ranges you need should be fairly profitable, and you can start to build kits from that.

I know most of the locksmith distributors here offer a service to have the locks come keyed, but usually you have to be a customer/ meet credit requirements to go through them; not sure how it is over there.

[globallockytoo]

As much as some of us would like to do that its just not cost effective to do so, its not very often i do this kind of work.

If i had a few high earning contracts then definitely.... but i dont

Not cost effective? I doubt that. I believe it is far more cost effective than having to wait for a pre-built system from another "locksmith" (who do you think is building them systems that you buy off the shelf?).

I charge $15.00 per keyhole to master key an existing cylinder. If I need to install new cylinders, I usually include the keying in the retail price of the cylinders.

I seriously doubt that you can purchase a pre-built master keyed cylinder for that price. (about 8GBP).

Just think that, if you did offer those systems, how much more work you could be getting because you are specializing.

[Rickthepick]

sks sell them £4.95 each...

[aussielocky]

To answer your original question, probably your best bet is Aldridge.

However the other posters are quite correct - it's best done yourself. It's like a pension fund, especially if you get yourself a restricted profile as then the client keeps coming back - and it's in their interest & for the good of their security that they do so.

Furthermore it's not just for big master keyed systems, one key systems for home's are very popular, and the upsell to a registered key is easy, after all how many people lend keys to neighbours, tradesmen etc. Do they really trust that person ? or would they sleep easier knowing the key cannot be duplicated .....

[globallockytoo]

sks sell them £4.95 each...

Is it a standard master key system? It is probably a universal master key at that price.

That means going anywhere and asking for a master key for an sks lock, the key can probably be made by anyone.

Great security, IMHO!

[Evan]

I currently use off the shelf master keyed locks for small suites but have recently had an enquiry about something a bit bigger and in need of higher security.

Does anyone know to a good supplier of decent quality mastered locks at a reasonable price?

As much as some of us would like to do that its just not cost effective to do so, its not very often i do this kind of work.

If i had a few high earning contracts then definitely.... but i dont

Rick:

How can you guarantee a product (in this case the "off-the-shelf" master-keyed locks you are reselling as being a secure product ??? Since they can be resold to anyone through many hardware dealers and locksmiths without the manufacturer or distributor who is doing the actual keying of the locks knowing where they will end up being installed... Let's say that you install such locks in Suite "A" at some building and later on the same locks with the same keying are installed in Suite "B" at the same facility by a construction company doing a remodel job for the new tenant...

When you order a new master key system part of the lead time on the job from the manufacturer when you order it is the lock company going through its records in order to select a top master key bitting and keyway that won't duplicate any other systems it has produced in your area...

Often times you will find that a customer who calls asking for locks to be master keyed already has a system in place and you are either going to be adding locks to it, changing the bitting of locks within that system to new different bittings so that the old change keys no longer work or doing a re-lock and replacing the whole system with a new one you create...

I have the same reservations about the pre-prepared master key systems that you can buy in binders and photocopy and use over and over again... You don't want to have repeats within your own customer base and you have to be logical and assume if you have purchased those master key system chart books at least one or more of your competing locksmiths in your area have done the same... Therefore installing such a system is not something you can guarantee as being secure as other identical systems might very well be out there, maybe even in the building across the street...

What is it about master keying locks that you are confused/mystified/worried about ??? I am interested in this because you have asked other questions about masterkeying locks here and master key systems are easy once you learn the basics... Could you give an example of what you consider to be a "small suite" and an example of what you would consider a system worthy of investing your resources in if you were "under contract" to maintain it ???

Do you have a pinning kit ??? Do you have a code key originating machine ??? Then you could be doing master key systems with no problem -- with merely a quick trip to your local supply house to stock up on additional vials of pins in the sizes you will need for the locks you are master keying that day...

~~ Evan

[Rickthepick]

yes it is something iv shyed away from to be honest.

a simple suite would be say ten locks, all with own keys and one key to open all.

thats about as complex as il ever have to fit

[Evan]

yes it is something iv shyed away from to be honest.

a simple suite would be say ten locks, all with own keys and one key to open all.

thats about as complex as il ever have to fit

Those are micro systems and you really should be able to do those "on-the-fly" using the customer's existing locks if they are all of a compatible keyway... All you have to do is write up the TMK combination, establish a KBA table and record the used combinations -- with a system that small you would be able to do this on an index card... See example below...

Just wait until you come across a large system that involves the use of multiple keyways and selective keying...

So it comes down to reading up on the principles of masterkeying and becoming familiar with how the properties of the locks you want to masterkey (MACS, bitting/increment series, keyway, etc.) impact system design along with special lock functions or cylinders which may restrict progression of a cylinder in certain pin chambers in order to accommodate the special situation you need to use it in...

Example:

TMK: (AA) 145072

Order of Progression: F E D C B A

KBA:

1 4 5 0 7 2
3 6 7 2 9 4
5 8 9 4 1 6
7 0 1 6 3 8
9 2 3 8 5 0

Change Keys:

1AA - 367294
2AA - 367296
3AA - 367298
4AA - 367290
5AA - 367214
6AA - 367216
7AA - 367218
8AA - 367210
9AA - 367234
10AA - 367236

You would skip any combination which violates MACS rules for the type of lock you are keying and go to the next usable combination... Hope this helps...

~~ Evan

[loki-aka]

Rick;

A PM has been sent your way regarding a possible system supplier.

Loki

[corey2444]

Those are micro systems and you really should be able to do those "on-the-fly" using the customer's existing locks if they are all of a compatible keyway... All you have to do is write up the TMK combination, establish a KBA table and record the used combinations -- with a system that small you would be able to do this on an index card... See example below...

Just wait until you come across a large system that involves the use of multiple keyways and selective keying...

So it comes down to reading up on the principles of masterkeying and becoming familiar with how the properties of the locks you want to masterkey (MACS, bitting/increment series, keyway, etc.) impact system design along with special lock functions or cylinders which may restrict progression of a cylinder in certain pin chambers in order to accommodate the special situation you need to use it in...

Example:

TMK: (AA) 145072

Order of Progression: F E D C B A

KBA:

1 4 5 0 7 2
3 6 7 2 9 4
5 8 9 4 1 6
7 0 1 6 3 8
9 2 3 8 5 0

Change Keys:

1AA - 367294
2AA - 367296
3AA - 367298
4AA - 367290
5AA - 367214
6AA - 367216
7AA - 367218
8AA - 367210
9AA - 367234
10AA - 367236

You would skip any combination which violates MACS rules for the type of lock you are keying and go to the next usable combination... Hope this helps...

~~ Evan

I follow the change keys. Where it says KBA: I figure that means master and sub-masters. Where I am lost is Order of Progression: F E D C B A. I do not remember ever covering this is class.

[globallockytoo]

F-E-D-C-B-A refers to the order of the rotating constant. In this case right to left instead of left to right.

Taking into consideration MACS, 4AA cannot be used in this system.