BKS LOCK

[murgle]

hey guys, im new to the forum, and i joined because i have a question.

i have been getting into lock picking, but havent succesfully picked a lock yet.. i have bought a training lock from a online store (link below) and it is drilled out, so you can see the inside and even reach it..

BUT i still cant open the m[edit]..
so what am i doing wrong..
i didnt get any book on picking, but how i basically understand, is you push one pin up at a time, when it holds, you go on to the next one.. but mines wont hold.. only the first 2 or so.. after that it gets f[edit] hard, and the third one (its the second in line 5 pins) wont hold.. i mean i can even pull it down to the sheerline from the outside, it either doesnt hold, or it makes the first two spring up.

the best i ever got it was that all the pins were almost at sheerline.. and the lock just sat there.. but it happens often that the pins dont fully reach the sheerline..
i got this thing for a week now and im going crazy that i havent opened it yet..
does anybody have any help?
i have southord picktools.
this is the lock i have version "beginner".

http://www.multipick-service.com/htdocs ... ainzyl.php

if anybody has any suggestions they're welcome. and i searched for bks but it didnt find anything.

[Squelchtone]

so what am i doing wrong..
i didnt get any book on picking, but how i basically understand, is you push one pin up at a time, when it holds, you go on to the next one.. but mines wont hold.. only the first 2 or so.. after that it gets <censored> hard, and the third one (its the second in line 5 pins) wont hold..

Picking isn't about just pushing all the pins up and making them stay up. If that worked, then we could all just put a flat head screw driver in any lock and they would open.

The point of picking is to lift each pin only as high as the real key would lift them in order to create a shear line. What is the shear line exactly? It's a small air space between the plug and the shell of the lock. Normally pins like to live in this airspace and they stop the plug from rotating. When you insert the proper key it pushes the key pins up, they push the driver or top pins out of the way, and when all the key pins are flush with the outer surface of the plug, then you have your self a shear line. What a pick does is to imitate what a real key would do, but a pick does it 1 or 2 or 3 pins at a time, not all 5 or 6 at once. As your pick is in the lock, you are trying to figure out how high to lift each pin in order to create that air space between the plug and the shell, but the point is not to just jam each pin up as high as you can, that just makes the pins protrude higher than the plug's surface and no shear line is created, and the lock stays locked because now the key pins are in the way and they are stopping the plug from rotating.

The other part of the equation, and some would argue just as important, is the tension/torque you are putting on the wrench or whatever plug turning tool you are using. Too little and pins wont stay up to the heights you set them to, too much, and you're gonna break your pick tips trying to lift the pins. If your finger is turning white, you're pressing too hard. A plug will turn when the lock is picked properly, you can't brute force it to turn.

Check out this tutorial, I think you'll like it.

http://www.locksport.com/home/lsiguide.pdf

Happy Picking!
Squelchtone

[murgle]

i understand everything you said, i mentioned in my post, that i push them to the sheerline.. but the thing wont stay there.. btw i got the lock upside down, so they push down.. but when i get it right to the sheerline.. it wont stay there.. thanks for your input tho.. i think (partly bc i got it to almost all lined up once) is that i need more finesse. im gonna practise some more.

[yng_pick]

If the cylinder can be disassembled, you may want to start with only a couple of the chambers pinned up.

Here is a good exercise by digital_blue for getting a feel of binding pins, when picking pin by pin:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10677

By working your way up, you get a chance to really develope a feel for which pins are binding.

Usually when I have the same problem you are having, where I have a binding pin, then a second one, then they drop, I often find that by going back over the pins one at a time with my rake and light tension, there is another pin binding as well. Once I have started with this pin instead, it often opens fairly easy. A common cause of this is using too much tension to begin with, which is causing more than one pin to bind at the start. By using a little less tension, a lot of times the pin you thought was binding will no longer be, and you will find the true binding pin.

Pin binding pin bind pin pinning pin bind.

[unlisted]

Uh ya, NO SWEARING please and thank you.

[Rickthepick]

your best not to look at the pins at all.

pick by feel and feel alone. What you see is not a good representation of whats actually happening. You cant see a pin binding

[murgle]

If the cylinder can be disassembled, you may want to start with only a couple of the chambers pinned up.

Here is a good exercise by digital_blue for getting a feel of binding pins, when picking pin by pin:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10677

By working your way up, you get a chance to really develope a feel for which pins are binding.

Usually when I have the same problem you are having, where I have a binding pin, then a second one, then they drop, I often find that by going back over the pins one at a time with my rake and light tension, there is another pin binding as well. Once I have started with this pin instead, it often opens fairly easy. A common cause of this is using too much tension to begin with, which is causing more than one pin to bind at the start. By using a little less tension, a lot of times the pin you thought was binding will no longer be, and you will find the true binding pin.

Pin binding pin bind pin pinning pin bind.

hehe the end made me laugh.. but yes i considered this as a possiblity already too, that what i think is the third binding pin, is really the second.. and so forth, i almost got it to pop again yesterday.. and you already answered a different question i had, that if adding more or less tension throughout the whole process, not just when pushing pins, makes an effect on how pins act later.. so the answer is yes.. ok i have new courage... training now again.. first for some food.. thanks i will post when im succesfull..

[Gozzo]

I have a padlock that i used a die grinder to cut away enough of the housing to see in side. Because no matter how hard i tried it wouldn't open, it was then that i learned sometimes the pins have to be lifted in a certain order on some locks to successfully open it. so try lifting them in a different order, say pin 3 and move to another pin if that doesn't work try another pattern. and of course if one pick doesn't work pick another pick.
hope this helps

[murgle]

hey guys, as promised i posted when i would be succesfull.. i just picked the lock with a diamond and a rake.. hahaha great joy!

but now the keyplug has turned upside down.. and wont budge or let the key enter.. it is not in any position.. meaning the top pins are fully disconnected from the springs and stuff, but it wont turn further, and cant be picked bc its not connected to the springs or anything.

so yea succes, but a new problem, if anybody knows what it is, please tell me.

[Squelchtone]

hey guys, as promised i posted when i would be successful.. i just picked the lock with a diamond and a rake.. hahaha great joy!

but now the key plug has turned upside down.. and wont budge or let the key enter.. it is not in any position.. meaning the top pins are fully disconnected from the springs and stuff, but it wont turn further, and cant be picked because its not connected to the springs or anything.

so yea success, but a new problem, if anybody knows what it is, please tell me.

That's funny, this happens all the time. Here's what I explained to someone the other day on why this happens AND how to recover from it: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=47785

Squelchtone

[murgle]

That's funny, this happens all the time. Here's what I explained to someone the other day on why this happens AND how to recover from it: [url]http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f

thanks man! that worked! im trying to pick it again!

[murgle]

UPDATE:

I can open the lock now with looking into it fairly easy (2-3 seconds) so now im gonna tape up the side, and start doing everything blind.. lol if i leave it untaped open, i catch myself peeping into the sides when i get lost doing the lock.. lol.. your mind gives you no choice.

but yea thanks for the tips guys.. and yea, as my initial question goes.. like somebody else said, pins just seem that they are binding, they are down, (or up w/e) but they have not truly binded, and therefore the bind isnt transferred to the next pin.. so its just pushed down but not binding. and the tolerances seem pretty low in this lock..

so anybody have any tips for more succes now that im training blind? i already got a good one, im gonna mark out on the pick where the pins aren inside the lock, this way i can line up more easily..

any more tips?

[MacGyver101]

Hey, congratulations on your progress! It sounds like things are coming together for you!

im gonna mark out on the pick where the pins aren inside the lock, this way i can line up more easily..

Just one note, to save you some frustration in the future: you may have already thought of this, but the marks that you make for pin spacing on this lock won't work for other makes/models of locks (there are many different standards for pin spacing). Putting some marks on your pick sounds like a nice way of helping to reinforce the feedback that you're feeling from the lock -- but don't rely on looking at the markings too much, or you'll start to develop some bad habits that will leave you frustrated when you move on to a different lock.

[murgle]

hi, guys.

i have another question. i have repinned my lock, to include a spool pin )in the top part) and a high low set up on top. now my problem is i didnt get the whole thing back together when putting it all back together again, the coupling fell out of the cylinder, but that side was already put into locked position.

so now to take it out, i have to pick the cylinder that was already locked, but this is out of my reach, so i need help:


the situation:

it is a high low set up, the first pin is high , second low, third high, fourth low, fith high.

ok the problem is this:
the first pin to bind is the third, after this the fourth, but the third pin is so high, that when i barely touch it, its already set, anything more makes it overset, and the one after it is low, so its being impossible to pick, and i havent even gotten to the spool yet..

any tips, guides etc. on how to pick high low, or work with oversetting pins?

[Rickthepick]

a long reach hook should do it providing the keyway warding is fairly tame.

shimming would work also but i bet thats advanced