Sere Bogota picks

[Josh K]

This is going to sound a little weird, but has anyone tried sending the titanium picks through a metal detector and see if it buzzes off?

[MacGyver101]

Hrm. Well, it depends on the size of the picks, what type of metal detector (e.g., hand-held, airport archway-style, etc.) and how quickly they pass through the scanner.

I've seen a fair amount of disinformation floating around online about titanium and metal detectors. In particular, some people seem to mistakenly believe that a metal detector will only detect magnetic metals: that isn't true. (Metal detectors detectors rely on a metal being conductive, not on it being feromagnetic.) One obvious example is that treasure hunters frequently use hand-held metal detectors to locate buried gold coins, etc... and gold isn't magnetic either.

Titanium isn't a particularly good conductor of electricity, so it will certainly produce a weaker response from a metal dectector than a similarly-sized piece of steel... but people with titanium joint implants regularly set off airport metal detectors, so it's simply a question of how large the piece is and how sensitive the detector is.

Studies of patients with various medical implants and random airport metal detectors have shown that about half of the archway-style detectors were sensitive enough to detect titanium pins and plates, and they set off most handheld scanners.

So... if your question was "I dropped my Bogata picks on the beach: will my metal detector find them?", the answer is "probably yes".

[Josh K]

My question was more of a "if I stow a pair of picks in my wallet and forget walking into a court house is that going to severely embarrass me."

I know it doesn't work on magnetic properties, but I haven't been able to find much information on detectors themselves aside from the beach combing ones.

[MacGyver101]

There are a handful of studies you can Google on airport metal detectors and titanium/stainless medical implants (try scholar.google.com)... but there aren't a lot of public studies on the limits of modern security scanners (and I can certainly appreciate why).

[LocksmithArmy]

YES i have

when Matt fiddler sent me these picks that was one of the topics I was to test...
and...
they were not detected by my Garrett hand held metal detector

[LocksmithArmy]

That is not to say a big walk through metal detector wont get ya... for a wand ur probably fine... for the big dish like treasure hunter ones... probably good too unless you turn up the sensativity real high... for the ful body or walk through ones... i could not say

[nataz]

What kind of metal detector? There is more to metal detectors then just hand held or walk through (although size does matter depending on what method the detector is using). How it is set up will also effect how well it works. Did they follow directions and space it far enough away from other metal sources, does it detect all the way to the ground? Profile and speed of movement matter as well .

I bet as small as they are they could get through quite a few metal detectors that I've seen at some airports and "secure" facilities that will remain anonymous.

[nataz]

@ MacGyver - what you said is almost right. Some detectors do still use passive detection against ferromagnetic metal, you just don't see them very often.

@ JoshK/MacGyver, if you are really that interested I'd be willing to give you some more information/point you in the right direction via PM. I'd just rather not have it searchable to the public under my user name!

now if I could post in advanced... :-p

[LocksmithArmy]

Mine looks like this... and the diretions say hold it 2" away... and yet i held it anywhee from 2", 2', i even touched them to it... still nothin... it got the bed springs (when they were on the bed) it got my ring(when they were in my hand) but in my non wedding hand... they were invisable

[Artkrp]

I keep a set of Raimundo's Bagotas in my wallet at all times and I've gone into the courthouse, through airports, clubs, etc, etc.....many times. Never had a problem. The 1/4 pound of C4 explosives on the other hand.......wellllllllll........not so undetectable. seriously though, I keep a full set of picks on my person at all times. no problems yet.

[Eyes_Only]

They don't run your wallet or smaller pocket items through that x-ray thingy like they do for your carry on luggage? I haven't been on a plane since 1998 so forgive me for my lack of knowledge on airport security. I just keep a ToooL credit card pick set in my wallet everywhere I go and I normally forget I even have it so I wonder if that will cause problems at the air port.

[nostromo]

Josh K -

I understand the 'what if' kind of thinking that we all indulge in at times. A guilty pleasure, if you will.

Something I feel I must say for your benefit. I work with a lot of cops. I teach them how to pick locks. SWAT, Investigators, Patrol, Secret Service, Police Chiefs. One of my lockie buddies runs the jailhouse for a courthouse. A longtime freind is a courthouse bailiff. I've also worked in military classified matirial environments where everyone was on recorded camera and had to pass several security control points to enter and exit. The security staff by and large try to give the benefit of the doubt. But why would you even THINK of risking it? I say this for several reasons.

One reason is for your personal benefit as well as protection for others. Look at it from the perspective of someone whose job it is to protect the building occupants from anyone bringing in weapons, to keep prisoners from escaping from the courthouse, and to keep anyone from smuggling weapons, drugs, other contraband or ESCAPE TOOLS to the prisoners. The alarm system triggers to say that someone has metal on them, or the scanner displays an item right from the 'contraband' list. You further examine the items in question and they are, indeed, tools designed with only one purpose- to open locks without a key. And the person who has them is not a licensed member of the lockpicking profession. "I forgot" is an excuse, not a justifiable reason, and is looked at very dimly.

How would you feel if for some reason you lost a lockpick, while practicing while you wait for something or some other means, and someone who should NOT have gotten the item picks it up? If they are about to be put into or returned to the system as a prisoner and get caught (whether they know what it is or not) they have probably added jail time to their sentence. What if they actually know how to use it and do so - how would you feel? What if they used it, got caught, and the tool was somehow traced back to you? Or if it was discovered anonymously (at first), like the guy who planted a pistol in an aircraft bathroom?

If detected at the entry or later, you are at the very least going to spend some time explaining yourself. Or be denied entry. If the building or airport environment is at high alert like a recent escape attempt, violent episode, or elevated profile at the direction of a sensitive supervisor or judge you may even face charges of possession of burglars' tools. Yah, yah, yah you are an american citizen, you have rights, and the burden of criminal intent has to be proven during prosecution. But how much more suspicious can taking lockpicks though a control point be?

If you know you have something in your possesion that you are not supposed to have while you are entering a controlled access place like an airport gate, courtroom, or national border, you are smuggling contraband. Yes, unless you are there to do some work with those tools at their request, you are smuggling. Despite the signs posted at the entry and despite common sense. DHS, especially, takes this very seriously at airports these days.

The last reason to not take tools into a court is simple courtesy. If detected, you are going to waste the time of the people who have the important job to protect you and others from harm. You will also be distracting them. If such contraband is found and they do not know where it came from there will probably be a hue and cry to see what OTHER contraband there is, who else has it, and why. Would you want to be on a long flight where a member of the flight crew found a tool that they thought could be used to attempt to penetrate the flight deck? That flight could be diverted to the nearest airport.

None of these scenarios are likely. Just plausible. But the reasons for taking these risks are just not strong enough to stand against the risks.

Please make sure you leave your stuff at home or in the car.

I'm off my soapbox now. Thank you all for listening. Be careful.
It is really really, really on YOUR shoulders.

[danneva]

As I searched on the internet, it is possible for a metal detector to detect titanium under certain conditions. It depends on the amount of titanium, and the level of sensitivity of the detector. In the case of Implants, detection rates also depend on the implant’s location within the body.

[danneva]

Titanium can be detected by a metal detector. The operation of metal detectors is based upon the principles of electromagnetic induction.

[shadow11612]

I carry my Ti Bogatas every where, through many "detectors" (at airports and other secure sites) and never had a problem. I had a small revelation right before I started doing it. My eyeglasses have Ti frames and they are 2 to 3 times the amount of material compared to my picks, and I have never had them set off any walk through "detector".

As I am in the "security" business, I have some knowledge of using "detectors". Most of time, and I said "most", walk through detectors are set with a high threshold, and the handheld "Garrett" type will be more sensitive. Especially since they are used and waved closer to your body. This can be easily seen with jeans. Normally jeans will not set off a walk through detector, but the handheld will beep on every rivet.

One other item of note. Not that this is guaranteed, but I have a RFID ID that I normally carry on an lanyard, with a RFID "blocking" card holder. The holder can hold two ID cards and I only need one side. So the other side holds a Ti Credit Card set of picks (Like the TOOOL Set). And it has not "yet" set off any "detectors" in the past year, which would be hundreds of pass throughs.

I think it would be interesting to test and see if a RFID Blocking card holder, or one of the RFID blocking wallets, actually diminishes the profile of the metal enough to lower its detection rate.

Of course I could way off base and the construction material of the RFID Blocker could increase the value, and I have just been lucky and only been through "Detectors" with a really high threshold.