Doesn't this make you worry???

[loki-aka]

To ENGR:

The MulTLock you show is most probably better than the typical Chinese made knockoff of the Kwikset style.
Is it secure enough for you? That depends are your actual and percieved threat level. Even if you live in a low crime community with heavy police presence and your own security patrol service, for example, but can't sleep because
you don't feel your front door lock is "good enough" what good is the lock ?

[MacGyver101]

The Mul-T-Lock Interactive model, usually a blue key, also has a floating ball bearing pressed into the key which helps with key control, but I also believe makes picking more difficult.

I'd also originally assumed as much... but it doesn't change the picking effort as much as you'd think.

In a nutshell, the "interactive" key element (the "floating" bit) is able to be pushed up higher than the top surface of the key. When it does this, the Interactive element effectively "over-lifts" its corresponding pinstack higher than the top of the keyway would normally allow. (e.g., think of a very shallow "comb pick" for one pin position.)

The H&M tools just have a notch that are cut deeper in that position, to allow their pick to reach "up" to the same degree that the longest Interactive key element would. Otherwise, picking is exactly the same (in my experience, at least!).

[ENGR]

Why are you overly concerned about break in? Your in university.... ?

Hehe good eyes. No I don't actually live at the university. The Madeco lock was at my gf's apartment there.. though I practically spend more time there than here.

Alas back to the point, the house i live in was broken into the day before christmas. They kicked in the door like a joke. This time there's a steel kick plate in there so hopefully that won't happen, but if they can easily pick the lock why even bother kicking it in right?

I guess I'm paranoid after the last time they broke in. It wasn't fun

[ENGR]

The Mul-T-Lock Interactive model, usually a blue key, also has a floating ball bearing pressed into the key which helps with key control, but I also believe makes picking more difficult.

I'd also originally assumed as much... but it doesn't change the picking effort as much as you'd think.

In a nutshell, the "interactive" key element (the "floating" bit) is able to be pushed up higher than the top surface of the key. When it does this, the Interactive element effectively "over-lifts" its corresponding pinstack higher than the top of the keyway would normally allow. (e.g., think of a very shallow "comb pick" for one pin position.)

The H&M tools just have a notch that are cut deeper in that position, to allow their pick to reach "up" to the same degree that the longest Interactive key element would. Otherwise, picking is exactly the same (in my experience, at least!).

What your describing here is exactly what we have in the relatively new (<10 years) doors there in Israel. Do they use this type of lock in the states as well? I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

loki-aka: I'm ok sleeping at night, but I double check every time I get home to make sure nothing was taken. I feel like it would be too easy to just waltz in the front door after a quick 2 minute lockpicking "exercise" and grab whatever they want.

I suppose I'm just shocked it's so easy.. then again me saying its easy on here likely doesn't help the case... unlisted, feel free to remove this sentence

[unlisted]

Why would I remove a sentence?

Also, don't worry, the chances of someone actually randomly picking your door is slim to none.

[Eyes_Only]

Why are you overly concerned about break in? Your in university.... ?

Hehe good eyes. No I don't actually live at the university. The Madeco lock was at my gf's apartment there.. though I practically spend more time there than here.

Alas back to the point, the house i live in was broken into the day before christmas. They kicked in the door like a joke. This time there's a steel kick plate in there so hopefully that won't happen, but if they can easily pick the lock why even bother kicking it in right?

I guess I'm paranoid after the last time they broke in. It wasn't fun

I did the same thing to my front door too. Metal "jacket" around both the deadbolt and knob set on the door. I would reinforce the door frame too by securing the strike plate with some two or three inch screws that'll dig into the actual frame of the building and not just the flimsy door frame that can be splintered apart by a kick in attack if you haven't done so already. Last I remember most Schlage deadbolt packages you can get at Home Depot has all the parts you need to strengthen the door frame.

[raimundo]

A member here recommended the book 'Flawless' about the antwerp or brussels diamond heist, there is a discription of the home the locksmith lives in, the guy who worked on the vault legitimatly and had to fix the damage, Just out of pride in his profession, and perhaps because he had parts left from some job Im guessing, this guy had a type of vault door on his home, Im pictureing one of those kinds of doors you see for records rooms in an old highschool or something, it couldn't be too thick if hes going to be openiing and closeing it every day several times I figure so how heavy could it be,

anyway, the authors, say that his whole house could burn down and that door would still be standing.

[globallockytoo]

When windows or door kick ins are a concern, I usually recommend nice locks and an monitored alarm system.

Depending on local crime, expensive possessions, level of paranoia, etc, there are also solutions for reinforcing doors and windows, including replacing windows or covering them.

I have heard both ways-
An expensive lock can perhaps make a potential thief bypass your house for an easier one, or may indicate to the thief that you have something worth breaking in for.
There will always be a way for a person to break in and do harm; the idea is to make it more difficult and less rewarding to the criminal.

I dont mean to be rude, but this statement shows that you really havent been in the industry too long. Alarm's never have been or ever could be physical security protection devices. It is just not possible. Alarms are marketed as security products when in fact they are nothing of the kind. If you want or need to be informed that a condition is occurring or has occurred, to feel secure then by all means get a monitored alarm.

But door frame strengtheners and window security film will be significantly less expensive than an alarm system to install and not require the ongoing maintenance and cost for monitoring, that an alarm system requires to be effective.

It doesnt matter how expensive the lock is that you decide to put on your door. A determined burglar will defeat it. But you are quite correct in your statement that it is our jobs as locksmiths to recommend solutions to our customers that will slow down potential burglars.

In almost all cases reported to police, time is the one factor present in all cases, that the potential burglar is most concerned with. Slow them down and they will look elsewhere.

[globallockytoo]

Alas back to the point, the house i live in was broken into the day before christmas. They kicked in the door like a joke. This time there's a steel kick plate in there so hopefully that won't happen, but if they can easily pick the lock why even bother kicking it in right?

I guess I'm paranoid after the last time they broke in. It wasn't fun

A steel kick plate will not prevent another kick in attempt. Kick ins occur for one reason and one reason only. Door Frame Failure.

Putting a kick plate on, only serves to help a potential burglar in future to make it easier to kick the door.

You want to prevent a kick in? Strikemaster II Pro. The most cost effective and easiest to install "physical protection device".

[MacGyver101]

What your describing here is exactly what we have in the relatively new (<10 years) doors there in Israel. Do they use this type of lock in the states as well? I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

I'm not sure of their prevalence in the States, but in Canada they're not uncommon on commercial buildings: I can think of at least four buildings within a block of me that use them. (They're much rarer to find on residential doors, but it's not completely unheard of.)

[Squelchtone]

What your describing here is exactly what we have in the relatively new (<10 years) doors there in Israel. Do they use this type of lock in the states as well? I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

I'm not sure of their prevalence in the States, but in Canada they're not uncommon on commercial buildings: I can think of at least four buildings within a block of me that use them. (They're much rarer to find on residential doors, but it's not completely unheard of.)

I know they're hot in New York City, and that's because a lot of locksmiths in NYC are from Israel or are Jewish Americans. (This is known fact, I don't have anything against them, and I'm not trying to start any trouble, so let's keep religion and politics out of further replies to this post)

I live in Springfield, Massachusetts (3 hours North East of New York City) and recently while getting in the car across from a popular German/Bavarian restaurant, I spotted a horizontal keyway on a building that was being renovated. I know the owner is a European guy, from Poland I think, and when I walked up to the door I was happy to see it was a Mul-T-Lock! The best part: I live in that neighborhood, so it's nice to see something better than Schlage, Kwikset or BEST on a business door. In case you are wondering, the business is a furniture store, that imports and sells European style furniture.

Aside from that and not to deviate too much, but the only other cool locks I see around here are Medeco which are very common on business doors, and ASSA Twin on all local banks.

Have a good day everyone,
Squelchtone

[Eyes_Only]

I must be living in a "lock ghetto" cos I almost never see any high security locks in my area. Sometimes Medeco but most businesses and even a couple of banks in my city are just using a regular SC1 keyway lock.

[yng_pick]

When windows or door kick ins are a concern, I usually recommend nice locks and an monitored alarm system.

Depending on local crime, expensive possessions, level of paranoia, etc, there are also solutions for reinforcing doors and windows, including replacing windows or covering them.

I have heard both ways-
An expensive lock can perhaps make a potential thief bypass your house for an easier one, or may indicate to the thief that you have something worth breaking in for.
There will always be a way for a person to break in and do harm; the idea is to make it more difficult and less rewarding to the criminal.

I dont mean to be rude, but this statement shows that you really havent been in the industry too long. Alarm's never have been or ever could be physical security protection devices. It is just not possible. Alarms are marketed as security products when in fact they are nothing of the kind. If you want or need to be informed that a condition is occurring or has occurred, to feel secure then by all means get a monitored alarm.

But door frame strengtheners and window security film will be significantly less expensive than an alarm system to install and not require the ongoing maintenance and cost for monitoring, that an alarm system requires to be effective.

It doesnt matter how expensive the lock is that you decide to put on your door. A determined burglar will defeat it. But you are quite correct in your statement that it is our jobs as locksmiths to recommend solutions to our customers that will slow down potential burglars.

In almost all cases reported to police, time is the one factor present in all cases, that the potential burglar is most concerned with. Slow them down and they will look elsewhere.

I'd like to say that we will have to agree to disagree, but I don't necessarily disagree with what you say.
Obviously, an Alarm system is not a physical deterrent. But it does act as a psychological one. Potentially- a burglar who sees that a house is alarmed, may move along to the next house. They may still attack the house, set off the alarm and take off. Or they may struggle to get into the house while it is going off and it is sent to monitoring, and then be caught in the act by the police, or not given the opportunity to do the extent of damage they might have, being in a rush.

Or, you can ignore alarm systems as a possible theft deterrent, go out of town for a couple weeks, and give a thief all the time they need to break into your secured door/window system and clean you completely out.

And also- I did go on to mention the possibility of reinforcing doors/windows, without mentioning very specific products or solutions.

It is true have only been in this business for five years, and I know that I still have a whole lot to learn. However, nothing you mentioned is outside of my base of knowledge. I also work with a couple of people who have been in the business (both alarms and locks) for over three decades, as well as several with 10-20 years experience in the business. Not one of these guys would discount alarm systems as part of a security solution.

[unlisted]

Do people have a clue what the "standard" response time is for alarm response for a residental building?

The "standard" in Ontario, Canada is horrible.. your looking at around an hour average before "someone" shows up... Unless you pay extra for Police.

[yng_pick]

They generally send someone other than police there?