Top ten lock designs

[Rickthepick]

So...

what you reckon are the top ten lock designs, take into consideration: quality, picking and destructive resistance and cost.

My candidate is the Assa twin. Extremely well made and nigh on impossible to pick. I like it because it is essentially still a traditional pinned cylinder

Discuss

[Josh K]

I love the old Corbin Emhart design, but that didn't work out so well.

The Assa Twin, Abloy Protech, and the Bilock are some neat designs that personally I like.

[mhole]

Well, you asked about locks so I'd say the Ingersol SC71 is up there. Still widely used after 30+ years, I still regularly come across locks which are still trucking after 25+ years of service, and whilst they are pickable, I wouldn't even try!

To be a pedant Rick, ASSA twin is a cylinder design not a lock

[mh]

To be a pedant Rick, ASSA twin is a cylinder design not a lock

Ha! I've heard statements like this before, but I refuse to accept that things that can be operated with a key can't be called a lock...
When the lock industry started using the term 'cylinder', IMO that wasn't even a good choice - the only cylindric part is usually the plug.

Cheers
mh

[Rickthepick]

booo...

[Squelchtone]

To be a pedant Rick, ASSA twin is a cylinder design not a lock

you been hanging out with Evan or something?

[mhole]

OK, let's see you lock a door with a cylinder!

The clinder is only 1 part of the package. You can fit an ASSA twin to a Yale 77, and you'll have a virtually pickproof cylinder which can be bypassed in seconds.

Ha! I've heard statements like this before, but I refuse to accept that things that can be operated with a key can't be called a lock...

I have keys to wind clocks and bleed radiators, neither of these are locks

[Squelchtone]

OK, let's see you lock a door with a cylinder!

I think it goes without saying or without hanging on every word and taking them literally that when we talk about pick proof locks or lock mechanisms, or locks in general that we are talking about the lock cylinders, not the actual mechanisms that the lock cylinder threads into that then extends some sort of latch or deadbolt into a door frame or strike box.

I know we all love locks and lock picking, so let's not get hung up on being grammar nazis, lock part nazis, or my favourite lock brand is better than whatever can come up with nazis, or my life experiences make me right and you wrong nazis.

enough already. (and this isn't focusing strictly on you mhole; there seems to be a lot of squabbling on here lately, its getting old real quick)

Squelchtone

ps. Rickthepick: I think even though we all like to bash Medeco and even though they have had some issues in the last few years with some easy semi destructive attacks, I think they should be in the top 10 because unless you're a skilled picker, you wont be picking a Medeco easily.

[globallockytoo]

I would include different cylinder designs in the top ten grouping, but reasonably speaking, the Chubb detainer system is not a cylinder as such but still worthy of top ten status. As is the Legge or Yale 5 and 7 lever mortise lock system and also Chubb Ava. Then there are automotive systems like Tibbe. Not modern pin tumbler cylinder systems, but worthwile designs to include in a list (IMHO).

If we are to be pedantic about it all, lets get peoples specific opinions on creating the top ten list according to opinion of:

1. Pin tumbler designs.
2. Lever tumbler designs.
3. Automotive designs.
4. keyless lock designs.
5. Electronic keypad lock designs.
6. Mechanical keypad lock designs.
7. Electronic combination safe lock designs.
8. Mechanical combination safe lock designs.

We are discussing lock designs, arent we? Not just cylinders?

[Squelchtone]

We are discussing lock designs, arent we? Not just cylinders?

I think I may have introduced the cylinders into the mix, but yes, we are talking lock designs, but not in the literal sense of 'wow this mul-t-lock deadbolt that has ball bearings sticking out of it is the best lock design ever' I think you're right to say that something like a lever lock can be in the category as well as a Chubb Ava or a Tibbe.

Basically any lock that we could try to pick using our normal pick sets, wires, or specialized decoder tools. Saying an HID proximity reader hooked up to an HES 9600 electric strike would obviously not fit the criterion.

some examples of what I think would work:
Bode Panzer
Ingersoll 10 lever
Medeco Original
EVVA MCS
Chubb Ava (as global mentioned)
Papaiz cruciform
ASSA Desmo
Yale Bicentric

things that wont work:
Adams Rite MS1850 aluminum door deadlock
Kaba Mas X-09 (yeah its cool, we all get chubbies over it, but its not pickable and its more electronics than an interesting mechanical design, so it doesn't qualify)

grey area:
S&G 833c padlock (its a really cool padlock, and has a Medeco cylinder which does qualify based on its innovative and time tested design, but the padlock body it self is just a big paper weight.. hmmm it does have ceramics in it and that cam that allows the padlock to break into 2 halves.)
S&G 8500 Group 1MP safe lock (another cool mechanical design, but is it what Rickthepick envisioned when he created the thread, Rick, I defer to you to make the final all on what should or shouldn't make the list.)

Perhaps the easiest way is to say, it qualifies if you can open it by inserting a key. (and remove safe locks that use a dial from this particular conversation, just to simplify things)

Rick, what say you?
Squelchtone

[Rickthepick]

I didnt think the thread would get this finicky to be honest

I just wanted to know what people like and why.

Which lock sleeps next to you in your bed

im going to go with:

*Must be a mechanical lock that requires a key of some description in order to function.

I know padlocks and locking units can have differing cylinders in them and in that case say which cylinder and why.

Lets not get too anal. Its a broad question just for fun

[Evan]

Do you need to be able to open and close the lock from the outside of the door ?

If not, I am fond of a simple wooden board put in place between cleats attached to the door frame on each side of the door...

Can't be manipulated from outside the closed door and you would have to raise quite a ruckus to destroy said wooden board from outside the door...

~~ Evan

[Schuyler]

Quick 10:

Norman
Assa Twin Combi (combi is important)
Fichet 747 (mostly because it's pretty)
X-09
Monitor because of it's place in history
Yale Pin tumbler - same reason
Emhart interlocking - always going to be on my list
Whatever lock first pioneered the double-ball locking mechanism (I should find out!)
Abloy Protec - no matter what comes next, it's record is absolutely incredible.

[mh]

OK, let's see you lock a door with a cylinder!

a small door: http://www.schluesseltresor.com/stresor.html

[fjardeson]

Western Electric 30C eight-lever payphone lever lock. As I've mentioned before, it's a classic commit before authenticate design. Kind of like the DBS in the Protec, another work of mechanical art.

Has anyone ever heard of NDE to a 30C? I can't even imagine how to start!