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hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping?

When it comes down to it there is nothing better than manual tools for your Lock pick Set, whether they be retail, homebrew, macgyver style. DIY'ers look here.

hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping?

Postby bt0558 » 13 Jun 2010 4:28

Hi guys...

In my youth I was an engineer but I have been out of it for 32 years now.

Have recently decided to take up locks as a hobby and acquired a range of tools inluding bench grinder, pillar drill and dremmel. I had already made some basic picks from windscreen wiper inserts and opened a few locks but one had eluded me for months. I made my first hacksaw pick last night and opened my rogue in about 2 minutes so i am hooked.

I have downloaded some patterns which i will use to grind some picks. I have a question for you old boys out there.....

Has anyone tried to soften hacksaw blades so that they can be ground and filed and then hardened the parts that need to be hard when done. Come to that, will not softened hacksaw blades do the job?

Can't find too much on the subject. If I am asking a question that is asked and answered every day I apologise as this is my first post.

Thanks all for an amazing site. Hopefully I will be able to give a little back when I get into it to repay the amazing advice I have already found on here.

Hang loose

Brian
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby criminalhate » 13 Jun 2010 23:09

The problem with annealing the steel before shaping the pick is trying to heat treat it and re temper it to a good flexibility and hardness.

The best way is to keep it cool while grinding. Good Luck and have fun in this addicting aspect of lock sport.
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby nostromo » 13 Jun 2010 23:23

Heat treating is a bit of a challenge, in that you go through some metal as part of the learning curve to get it right. I used to make knives using various kinds of steel and finally gave up messing with hardening / softening metal. Never could get just the right hardness.

What works the best for me is to print out the pattern on plain paper and glue stick it to the metal to be worked. After that, trace out the pattern on the metal (through the paper template) using a scribe or an engraver.

Use a grinder to 'hog off' large amount of metal, never letting the friction-generated heat bloom enter into the final pattern shape. If you can, try and work the grinder with the lights a bit lower so you can better see any color changes- the thinner the metal the easier for it to heat very quickly. Keep a can of water nearby to cool off the metal freqently, not just a quick dip but long enough so the metal is cool to the touch. And cool the metal well before you see any heat bloom. Go slowly. If you can get a slower speed grinder you can go a little longer.

Hog out larger areas first, going inward. Except for the pick tip - work that from tip to shank base. Once you get within 1/8" - 1/16" of the final lines, move over to a 1" wide belt sander if you can get one. They are just wonderful - easy to change to different grits, replacement belts are cheap, the surface area is big enough that heat generation is not too much of a problem, and you can even come very close to final shaping of pick profiles. During the whole process keep the handle and shaft profiles as perpendicular to the faces of the metal as you can.

Or use handfiles on the metal (clamped into a vise) to get close to the final lines. Know that it is going to take a few hundred strokes and just get into it. Don't rush, or over pressure the file. Keep as much of the metal clamped into the jaws as you can to protect from filing too deeply. A warded file for shanks and rounding corners, a chainsaw or round file for inside curves like hook picks and snake rakes.

If you decide to use a Dremel type tool for closer shaping instead of the files, try and use the slowest speed possible, or a very light touch. Watch carefully for heat bloom. These tools don't do completely straight edges very well so you'll have to use a flat file. Go from coarse to medium grit stone heads for the final shaping - then finer stone, cratex, or emery paper wheels for final polishing.

You might consider using a paper wheel on your grinder with various polishing compounds for the final treatment. Search the forums for how Raimundo does this, and why. Polishing your picks increases your success rate as well as giving a more professional looking product.

Doing several picks at once lets you move from one pick to another so they have a better chance of staying cool.

Hope this helps, best of luck!!
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby zeke79 » 13 Jun 2010 23:40

As said above, it is best to just work the material while keeping it cool. There are some posts around here discussing the topic so you might find them with a search. If I recall correctly most members here have come to the conclusion that it is best to just work the material while cool but there was a couple members who said they had luck annealing the steel before shaping it and then hardening it again. I have tried this a few times and while the material does get softer to work with I could never get the proper hardness back into the material without making it brittle. It is definately possible to do but the extra time it takes to accomplish this to make the material easier to work will end up taking more time than just slowing down and water quenching while working the material cold. The process would be fun to do though so if you are just looking for the experience of doing it, then I think it would be very cool if you could work out how to aneal the material and then reharden it while retaining good elasticity.

If you are looking for more pick shapes you can check out my website. Most are not to scale and are just pictures of the pick tip and shaft along side a scale. You could easily work it out so they print off to scale if you want to go that route. You'll have to register to gain access to the pick templates, videos and general lock information. You can find the templates at www.locksportarchives.com .

Good luck,

-Zeke79-
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby raimundo » 15 Jun 2010 8:50

tempered steel has excellent working characteristics, except you have to keep it cool, this is a choice you control, you can work very slowly or you can use a coolant, such as a bowl of water to quench the piece frequently

attempting to change the temper is not a good idea, metalurgists know the composition and process for making the metal they work with, but we don't know that sort of stuff with metal that we just pick up.

the ease of working characteristics that may come if your annealing has been successful (no guarantee that you don't harden it to brittle while attempting to anneal it.)
is not worth the loss of temper. do not change the temper of your metal for working it, then expect to have it return to tempered metal when you are finished.

Work file, cut, and bend, while the steel is cold. (room temperature)

What Zeke 79 said.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby Monkeywjcr » 17 Jun 2010 18:57

Here, this guy softens the blades first.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Yet-ano ... sructable/
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby bt0558 » 21 Jun 2010 15:17

wow thanks guys, a range of advice, all of which i will take on board.

am going to make a set of picks using grinder and dremmel and as an aside I am going to mess about softening and hardening to see what success i have.

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

I will post about my sucesses and failures as I go, but in the correct ection next time.

Thanks again

Brian
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Re: hacksaw blades...anyone tried to soften them for shaping

Postby thededer » 21 Jun 2010 19:16

good luck and have fun :wink:
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