List these locks in order (and bonus questions).

[skyiscoolbeans]

List the following padlocks in order from easiness of picking to difficulty of picking:

Master Lock 930
American 5260
Abus 90/50
Abus Diskus 20/80
Medeco M3 padlock
Medeco Biaxial padlock
Best padlock (not sure of the exact model, but it has 7 pins and here it is: http://www.gonzaleslock.com/sitebuilder ... 21x311.jpg)
Mul T Lock 7x7 padlock
Brinks shrouded 6 pin (again, not sure of the model).



List the following deadbolts in order from easiness of picking to difficulty of picking:

ASSA Twin 6000
ASSA Twin V10
Mul T Lock MT5+
Schlage Everest Primus (Or standard Primus. Is there a difference?)
Abloy Protec (obviously this is the hardest, but I'm using it as a reference.)
BiLock


Also, while on the "hardest" subjects, in your experience which are the easiest-to hardest security pins to pick in locks?
Serrated pins
Serrated spool pins
Mushroom pins
(And/or any other pins there are.)

How would you rate a Schlage Everest in terms of pick resistance? Is it much more difficult than a standard Schlage SC4 for example?

Thanks.

[pH]

I can't comment on a good number of the locks you've listed since a number of them are high end and I have no experience with them.

I can say that the Schlage Everest doesn't offer much extra pick resistance. There is basically an extra 'check pin' deep in the bottom of the keyway. This can be lifted by a small pick, such as a short hook.

The trick is when none of the pins will bind any more while picking, go for the check pin. Peterson also offers a special tension tool that basically bypasses the check pin by lifting it for you. You can also make a special tension tool by grinding down an Everest key. My Everest pick is a slice of plastic from an old credit card, it's just the right size to slide in the keyway and lift the check pin

The main thing you are getting with Everest is the patented keyway, no one is just going to walk into Walmart and copy the key.

[skyiscoolbeans]

I can't comment on a good number of the locks you've listed since a number of them are high end and I have no experience with them.

I can say that the Schlage Everest doesn't offer much extra pick resistance. There is basically an extra 'check pin' deep in the bottom of the keyway. This can be lifted by a small pick, such as a short hook.

The trick is when none of the pins will bind any more while picking, go for the check pin. Peterson also offers a special tension tool that basically bypasses the check pin by lifting it for you. You can also make a special tension tool by grinding down an Everest key. My Everest pick is a slice of plastic from an old credit card, it's just the right size to slide in the keyway and lift the check pin

The main thing you are getting with Everest is the patented keyway, no one is just going to walk into Walmart and copy the key.

Thank you for that bit of info. Sad because a locksmith had installed an Everest for me some time ago, claiming it was "unpickable" entirely. Do Everests even come standard with any security pins even?

[Evan]

The main thing you are getting with Everest is the patented keyway, no one is just going to walk into Walmart and copy the key.

You have a bit more to learn about Schlage lock products... While you are correct with what you are saying, it is not as difficult to obtain the open keyway blanks as you make it out to be...

The Schlage Everest Keyways come in two families for full size cylinders:

The open "C" family which is TOTALLY unrestricted for conventional cylinders, meaning that anyone with such a key can obtain a duplicate of their Everest "C" key at ANY locksmith who services those cylinders... No fancy ID or factory authorization card is required... Anyone can order such keyblanks from a distributor as they are not a locksmith restricted item...

The Restricted "D" family keyways are a different matter... You have to have an established system approved by the Schlage key systems adminstrator to be able to obtain keys through a locksmith or be approved for an end-user system...

There are various levels of Everest Primus Keyways available from: national dealer (locksmith) keyways, distributor keyways, dealer exclusive keyways, end-user first two digits of zip code, end-user time-zone, end-user exclusive depending on the size of your system and your willingness to meet the minimum buy in for number of cylinders... As far as "Everest Primus" a keyway is a unique finger pin bitting and its associated factory side-milled keyblanks used in a cylinder...

All Everest Primus keys require an authorized signature card to obtain additional cut keys or duplicates...

There seems to be some confusion as to which is high security and which is not, any Schlage lock which is a "Primus" lock has the additional side finger pins... "Everest" conventional locks only include a single "check pin" which is not intended to be a security device and exists only so that the keyblanks are side milled in that location for the check pin so they could not be otherwise modified by hand to operate Primus cylinders by someone with a dremel and a lot of patience... This is an issue with keying systems which will mix Primus and conventional Everest cylinders as a side milling code must be chosen which will be compatible with the check pin in the non-Primus cylinders so that all of them may operate on one Primus master key...

~~ Evan

[Evan]

Thank you for that bit of info. Sad because a locksmith had installed an Everest for me some time ago, claiming it was "unpickable" entirely. Do Everests even come standard with any security pins even?

Are you still dealing with your "scenario" drama which you are unable to better explain with the unnamed "evidence from a court case" being stolen repeatedly from your camper ? From some mysterious omnipresent bad guy who is picking and/or bumping your added RV lock open at their whim ?

I mean if you want real security advice you should just explain the actual situation and ask for it, not play these "tell me which one of these locks is 10% better than the rest" games since it looks like it won't solve the actual problem you are having...

Something about your "situation" (unless it all boils down to a simple feud type scenario that is beginning to escalate out of your comfort zone) just doesn't add up... Please tell us what is really going on so we can offer you more definitive assistance...

~~ Evan

[MacGyver101]

Sad because a locksmith had installed an Everest for me some time ago, claiming it was "unpickable" entirely.

The level of security depends a bit on which "Everest" you have.

Schlage has (in my opinion) created a bit of naming confusion by bringing their Primus line under the "Everest" umbrella. They currently now offer:

• Classic Primus: previously just called "Primus", this is a reasonably high-security lock.
  
• Everest: this isn't particularly high-security: it's more about key control (and beefier keys that are less likely to break). You can order many of the Everest blanks on-line now... but, as pH notes, common places like Walmart and your local hardware store don't usually stock even the more common Everest blank, so it gives you protection against folks who might be tempted to make a casual copy.
  
• Everest Primus: a "Primus" mechanism built around the heavier Everest blanks. They've done this both to keep up with patent protection on the key blanks (i.e., so that other folks can't make the blanks for a while), and also to have a heavier-duty key (less likely to break). Everest Primus keys can't be made to work with traditional Schlage cylinders, but they can work with the lower-security Everest cylinders.

If you have an Everest Primus (with a wavy groove milled into the right-hand side of the key), then I'd agree with your locksmith that it's safe to consider it "unpickable" for your average Joe. If you just have an Everest, then I think "unpickable" is a bit of a stretch.

Hope that helps...

[pH]

What these folks are saying is all good. My original interpretation was that you meant plain old Everest (one notch on the bottom of the key.) I apologize if I confused you and you meant one of the Primus flavors. From the picture of the lock possibly in question (from your other posts) it appears to be vanilla Everest to me.

[FarmerFreak]

Out of the "high security" locks that I myself have played with, and picked. I won't go into details or list the locks on your list that I haven't played with first hand.

Starting with the easiest.

-Medeco M3

-Medeco Biaxial, yes they are typically harder than the newer M3 cylinders.

-Schlage Classic Primus

-Schlage Everest Primus, in my opinion the Everest Primus is significantly harder to pick than the classic

-Assa Twin 6000

-Assa Twin V-10, the only reason I think this is harder to pick than the 6000 is because the keyways are usually more restrictive.


As far as the hardest pin types to pick? Barrel pins combined with countermilling in the bottom chambers designed to catch the lip on the barrel pins. These kinds of pins are used in the Assa twins.

[pin_pusher]

i can pick them all with ease...every last one, no more than 30 seconds each...

o wait i'm confused, did you say in real life?

[shaothegreat]

List the following padlocks in order from easiness of picking to difficulty of picking:

Master Lock 930
American 5260
Abus 90/50
Abus Diskus 20/80
Medeco M3 padlock
Medeco Biaxial padlock
Best padlock (not sure of the exact model, but it has 7 pins and here it is: http://www.gonzaleslock.com/sitebuilder ... 21x311.jpg)
Mul T Lock 7x7 padlock
Brinks shrouded 6 pin (again, not sure of the model).

Well out of the ones in your list that I've picked:

1. Master 930 - Easy, so easy...
2. Best 7 pin SFIC - Depending on keying, but never had a problem with any standard pin tumbler SFIC
3. Abus 90/50 - Once you figure it out it's a piece of cake
4. American 5260 - takes patience
5. Brinks shrouded 6 pin (the chromed out one, right?) - Like the American but with a more restrictive keyway