Peephole Security

[Klaiviel]

Are there any peepholes for doors out there that are resistant to wrenching attacks? I have been trying to find one but have been unable. I was thinking worst case I could do something like the Abloy spin collar but just want some additional input. Thanks.

[chaos4zap]

It doesn't seem like there is much out there geared towards preventing removal with a wrench. What exactly is your security concern here? That someone would remove the peephole and put something through there to try and "fish" for the lock handle? (never mind the unlikelihood that you could get the lock at the right place and angle to operate it) Seems more likely to me that someone is going to just kick that door in or break a window. The only security issue I can see is the reverse peep-hole viewers that let you see inside someone home, but that doesn't seem to be your concern. Alternatively, if you are concerned, why no go with a wired/wireless camera and monitor? That would eliminate the threat all together and maybe one of those cheap back-up cameras for cars would even suffice? Just a thought.

[Klaiviel]

Yes my concern is that it could be removed and the deadbolt latch could be fished to the open position through the half inch hole which I know is possible; this was demonstrated during the seventh NotACon conference in Cleveland, Ohio. I realize its unlikely and that double cylinder locks exist to protect against this, but I am unwilling to use a double cylinder (against fire code in my area I am pretty sure) and I would much rather just fix the problem which is the hole in my door with some sort of peep hole that can't be wrenched out by a rubber jar opener which works because I just did it last night. I am not interested in any sort of camera system, that's way out of my price range.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Yes my concern is that it could be removed and the deadbolt latch could be fished to the open position through the half inch hole which I know is possible; this was demonstrated during the seventh NotACon conference in Cleveland, Ohio. I realize its unlikely and that double cylinder locks exist to protect against this, but I am unwilling to use a double cylinder (against fire code in my area I am pretty sure)

There are no fire codes applicable to a residence. None. Ever. Period. Go ask your local AHJ/Fire Marshall. They'll tell you the same thing.

and I would much rather just fix the problem which is the hole in my door with some sort of peep hole that can't be wrenched out by a rubber jar opener which works because I just did it last night. I am not interested in any sort of camera system, that's way out of my price range.

Well, why not spring for a drill proof or punch proof peep hole (sarcasm)? You could destroy a peep hole by running a drill bit through it or taking a flat blade screwdriver of equal size and pounding it through the door. I mean seriously, at what point will your paranoia cease? Just because it was discussed at a convention doesn't mean crooks are out there using it.

You're confusing theory and likelihood. There is a fine line between feasible and impractical. Crooks know that response time to alarms/calls allow them enough time to smash and grab. They're going to try to kick down your door. If they can't relatively quickly, they're moving on. They aren't going to think like hackers at a convention in Ohio or Vegas. You're giving these guys far more credit than they really deserve.

I'm glad I'm not your wife.

[chaos4zap]

Yeah, that was my point. If someone is seriously concerned about an actual thief removing the peephole and fishing the latch, then your probably better off stocking up on food and bricking yourself into your house for good. Someone could theoretically find a stick in your yard that is of adequate strength and size to rake open your lock...you had better make sure your out there every day to rake up all sticks within a 1 block radius. But seriously, just use a camera then. Those back-up cameras are like 50$ and they seem to have an alright image...no peep hole at all.

[Klaiviel]

There are no fire codes applicable to a residence. None. Ever. Period. Go ask your local AHJ/Fire Marshall. They'll tell you the same thing.

You are trying to tell me there are no fire codes applicable to an apartment complex, somehow I doubt that.

Well, why not spring for a drill proof or punch proof peep hole (sarcasm)? You could destroy a peep hole by running a drill bit through it or taking a flat blade screwdriver of equal size and pounding it through the door. I mean seriously, at what point will your paranoia cease? Just because it was discussed at a convention doesn't mean crooks are out there using it.

If someone made it, perhaps I would. I never implied that crooks are out there using it. What I did say is there is a known flaw and I would like to fix it if I can. Let's get one thing strait right now, I am not paranoid; I do not think for a second that anyone would waste there time trying to rob me. The reason I do things like this is because I enjoy the challenge, I see a problem and I fix it, the likelihood of a vulnerability being used is irrelevant to me. I realize I will never have the perfect security situation and that's fine; doesn't mean I am going to stop tweaking here and there.

I'm glad I'm not your wife.

I am glad your not my wife too.

Yeah, that was my point. If someone is seriously concerned about an actual thief removing the peephole and fishing the latch, then your probably better off stocking up on food and bricking yourself into your house for good. Someone could theoretically find a stick in your yard that is of adequate strength and size to rake open your lock...you had better make sure your out there every day to rake up all sticks within a 1 block radius. But seriously, just use a camera then. Those back-up cameras are like 50$ and they seem to have an alright image...no peep hole at all.

I seriously doubt someone is going to rake open an Abloy Protec with a stick.

[chaos4zap]

[/quote]

I seriously doubt someone is going to rake open an Abloy Protec with a stick.[/quote]


Well, That seems as probable to me as someone breaking out the peephole and fishing your door open. I'm not sure if I buy the whole "I'm not being paranoid, I just see a vulnerability and enjoy the challenge of fixing it" thing either. How much satisfaction can there be in searching the web, buying something and installing it? That sounds like something a paranoid person does. If a person is strictly concerned with the challenge of fixing a potential issue, then they would drill holes in wood, install different types of peep holes, evaluate their vulnerabilities and try and come up with an idea to protect from that vulnerability. Since we have established this isn't a realistic vulnerability and your original post was you clearly asking others to provide you with the solution to these vulnerabilities....I don't see how that is a challenge. If you live in a apartment (which are almost ALWAYS mater keyed), then I"m sure they might have an issue with you changing the locks on them. Not too many apartment managers installing Abloy's these days, yet your concerned with the violation of fire codes? You were paranoid and you got called out on it, I don't see any shame in that. I don't see why you wouldn't just own up to it instead of trying to desperately make it seem like it was a legitimate question?

[Klaiviel]

Seriously if you don't have anything to contribute to the question the thread is about don't post in the thread; we are 8 posts in now and nothing useful has been said only crap. In my first post I suggested an idea I had to use a spin collar like is used to prevent the same attack on Abloy Protec cam locks. I am so sorry that I haven't built such a device yet and appealed to the internet for alternative ideas. You don't get to tell me I am paranoid because you don't know me well enough to make that judgment. Seriously, useless people like you piss me off; go bother someone else.

[mhole]

Thread lock.








Just saying....

[Klaiviel]

Yea probably wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. I didn't mean to fly off the handle like that, I just get sick of having to explain myself constantly.

[EmCee]

No...I think mhole meant 'thread lock' as a solution to the rubber jar opener attack.

Cheers...

[Tyler J. Thomas]

You are trying to tell me there are no fire codes applicable to an apartment complex, somehow I doubt that.

Not in terms of a unit.

A door is said to be inline with code when it allows for one motion egress in case of an emergency. That means one motion to exit the building. Your SCDB + leverset qualifies as 2. You're already violating firecode if you don't believe that it doesn't apply to you. Also, you have an inswinging door, another big no-no in terms of firecode on an exit door. Strike two. So, let's assume I'm wrong and fire code does apply - you're already violating 2 big codes.

Again, fire codes do not apply to residences, period. I deal with AHJ's every week, almost daily, I know what I'm talking about. It's your house and it's private property - you can do whatever you want. No code applies.

[Klaiviel]

You are trying to tell me there are no fire codes applicable to an apartment complex, somehow I doubt that.

Not in terms of a unit.

A door is said to be inline with code when it allows for one motion egress in case of an emergency. That means one motion to exit the building. Your SCDB + leverset qualifies as 2. You're already violating firecode if you don't believe that it doesn't apply to you. Also, you have an inswinging door, another big no-no in terms of firecode on an exit door. Strike two. So, let's assume I'm wrong and fire code does apply - you're already violating 2 big codes.

Again, fire codes do not apply to residences, period. I deal with AHJ's every week, almost daily, I know what I'm talking about. It's your house and it's private property - you can do whatever you want. No code applies.

Okay, thanks for explaining it further.

No...I think mhole meant 'thread lock' as a solution to the rubber jar opener attack.

Cheers...

That's actually a pretty good idea, not sure why I didn't think of that, I will try it and see what happens. I still might try to make a spin collar, I think that may be a fun little project to do.

[Fuqua]

http://www.cityoflorain.org/documents/c ... t_1014.pdf

page 20

lets assume klaiviel lives in an apartment. im guessing so because i doubt most homes are secure enough that fishing through the peephole to open the door would be the easiest way in.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

http://www.cityoflorain.org/documents/council/8-26-09agpkt_1014.pdf

page 20

lets assume klaiviel lives in an apartment. im guessing so because i doubt most homes are secure enough that fishing through the peephole to open the door would be the easiest way in.

You linked a document that was a recommendation to current city codes. Read page 11.