Best Locks

[WOT]

hmmm I feel dumber now

[globallockytoo]

Based on my half-century-plus experience with locks and keys, my opinion is that any large instituion that doesn't use Best is wasting the taxpayers' or the stockholders' money, as the case may be. Best makes the best quality lock for the money that I've ever seen, and it's quicker and easier to service than anything else. My experience with Best in particular was primarily back in the 1980's, but unless things have changed they have always tried to sell exclusively to large instituions who have their own in-house locksmiths, who do not want local locksmiths messing with their systems.

For someone with a half century plus experience in this trade, why do you condone a company that directly bypasses the locksmith business and sells direct to the end user? Why do Best not send out their own tradespeople to service problems, rather than tell the end user to find their own locksmith?

Best is a product line that requires significant investment in propritery hardware as opposed to the multitudes of other keying systems that retro-fit in just about every commercial brand available.

Often purchasing replacement proprietary SFIC/LFIC hardware can result in many days without a secure entry. Whereas most other hardware can be sourced more quickly.

The tax payer has been defrauded by companies like Best and by individuals like yourself that claim they are doing the right thing, when in fact they are not. They are promoting a system that does not speed up the repair time. Most technicians still require to dismantle a cylinder to repin it, the only time saved is in pulling a body from the door, a saving of what......10 minutes average?

[misterj]

Based on my half-century-plus experience with locks and keys, my opinion is that any large instituion that doesn't use Best is wasting the taxpayers' or the stockholders' money, as the case may be. Best makes the best quality lock for the money that I've ever seen, and it's quicker and easier to service than anything else. My experience with Best in particular was primarily back in the 1980's, but unless things have changed they have always tried to sell exclusively to large instituions who have their own in-house locksmiths, who do not want local locksmiths messing with their systems.

For someone with a half century plus experience in this trade, why do you condone a company that directly bypasses the locksmith business and sells direct to the end user? Why do Best not send out their own tradespeople to service problems, rather than tell the end user to find their own locksmith?

Best is a product line that requires significant investment in propritery hardware as opposed to the multitudes of other keying systems that retro-fit in just about every commercial brand available.

Often purchasing replacement proprietary SFIC/LFIC hardware can result in many days without a secure entry. Whereas most other hardware can be sourced more quickly.

The tax payer has been defrauded by companies like Best and by individuals like yourself that claim they are doing the right thing, when in fact they are not. They are promoting a system that does not speed up the repair time. Most technicians still require to dismantle a cylinder to repin it, the only time saved is in pulling a body from the door, a saving of what......10 minutes average?

While I agree that LFIC hardware is proprietary, I can't agree that SFIC hardware is. SFICs are universal. Almost any lock manufacturer makes them now: Best, Schlage, Arrow, Yale, Sargent, Medeco, etc.

I honestly think that SFIC hardware is a pretty decent choice for most buildings, as you have a very large amount of options. One flexibility of it is to keep a second set of cores and keys on hand to swap everything in the event of a security compromise. You could easily rekey an entire building in no time should the need arise. When the old cores are out, they can be repinned and become the on-hand set. No waiting on a locksmith in the event of an immediate issue here.

The other nice thing is that an SFIC system can be installed just about anywhere. They can go on file cabinets, display cases, doors, padlocks, drawers, cabinets, etc. Show me a non-SFIC system where this type of hardware is so easily available.

Though I'll admit that it's interesting that Best doesn't want to service their product in some cases, and asks to have a locksmith do it. The store uses Best SFICs on an unrestricted keyway (J), and while all the older cores are Best brand, the new ones don't appear to be. They are completely blank, and are just stamped "1" "2" etc. reflecting the key level that opens them. Also, the older padlocks are all Best brand, but the newer ones are Schlage and some no-name ones. When the building was remodeled, all the new door hardware was Yale. Prior to this, it was all Best. While they're still using SFICs, they're moving away from using Best exclusively, especially for hardware.

The library I deal with the keying for uses Best SFICs (M Keyway), and Arrow hardware. Works beautifully for us.

I'll admit that at home, I have eliminated most of my SFICs, though...just for the sake of having everything keyed alike. All the doors were Schlage C145, so I keyed the remaining padlocks to the house doors. At the same time, if I had realized how cheap I could get decent hardware for SFICs for, it would all still be Best SFIC. I went with Schlage with Everest cylinders because at the time, I thought it was cheaper. I was wrong, but I have no reason to ditch the Schlage. On a lighter note another plus is that the Everest keys are huge, so I can find it in the dark pretty easily...it stands out nicely from the Best keys on my ring! Either one is a heck of a lot better than the Kwikset, Defiant, Dexter, Weiser, even consumer-grade Schlage stuff most people have on their doors.

[globallockytoo]

Show me a non-SFIC system where this type of hardware is so easily available.

I presume you havent heard or seen too much Bilock. It fits in multiple manufacturers hardware. Is totally interchangeable core. Works in everything from cam locks, switches to padlocks, door locks, even some automotive products. It is not as cheap as SFIC stuff but it is considerably easier/quicker to recode and uses fewer parts (master keyed systems). Plus the keys are unable to be duplicated by every corner store.

[globallockytoo]

While I agree that LFIC hardware is proprietary, I can't agree that SFIC hardware is. SFICs are universal. Almost any lock manufacturer makes them now: Best, Schlage, Arrow, Yale, Sargent, Medeco, etc.

SFIC still requires you to purchase that style of hardware, as opposed to standard cylinder hardware. It requires to be figure of 8 design. I doubt that many hardware stores including the big boxes will likely carry the products, with many maintenance people shopping there due to convenience.

With standard hardware, often just a knob or lever can be replaced without requiring to use a complete mechanism, reducing cost and delay. In many cases, Schlage, Medeco, Bilock and some other brands make cylinders to suit standard hardware types too.

I recently installed a LFIC conversion cylinder (41 Doors) to Bilock for a customer, who otherwise would have had to purchase all new hardware or go with a considerably more expensive LFIC key system.

(I was able to supply and install, including keys and labor for $98.00 per door - Primus or almost any other cylinder type, costs considerably more)

[misterj]

I haven't dealt with BiLock so far. I'll have to look into it, sounds like an interesting system.

I agree that SFIC hardware isn't conveniently available in hardware stores. For that matter, though, the hardware stores around here (big and small), don't sell much of anything with flexibility. The knobs/levers I see there usually can't take real KIK cylinders (no space for anything more than 5-pin). The overall quality isn't such that I would put into even moderate use, either. It's really geared at homes and very small businesses with no more than a few locking doors and low traffic. Locksmiths around here are the only ones who stock decent hardware that takes real cylinders...the two in town keep a lot of US Lock stuff on hand, which, for the price, I'm very impressed with the quality of.

When SFIC is initially purchased, I don't think it's a negative thing to be "locked into," because like I said, nearly any keying system from nearly any manufacturer will have an SFIC option.

[FreyGrimrod]

Hello I'm a relative newbie and have a few questions and a comment.

Pardon my ignorance of Bilock but what exactly makes it bump proof besides two sets of pins similar to some other keys (like many used around Wentworth college say.... who knew an engineering school needs higher quality locks heh)? Wouldn't this just make it very unlikely to bump but still theoretically possible?


Also I have no experience with bumping outside of videos let alone bumping Best locking systems keyways.... how difficult are the Best 7 pin keyways to bump? And is the issue the 7 pins or tight tolerance in manufacturing since so many of these institutional locks get sloppy after years of use w/o repinning if it is a heavily utilized keyway.


Finally with respect to key control I have yet to find anyone who has refused to duplicate a best locking system duplication prohibited key assuming I had the matching blank stamped with duplication prohibited..... although plenty of folks have failed to get them indexed quite right

[misterj]

As far as duplication of Best goes, I find that the locksmiths around here will do it if I have the core in hand, otherwise they give me a hard time about it. Having the blank in stock is the bigger issue. I've found that for some reason, they're spotty on the more obscure single-letters (J, K, L, M)...and they don't have the W or T series at all. I bet if I came in with a blank, they would do it, though.

Anyone know anything about the T series keyways? (TA, TB...TE). They seem like they're pretty uncommon. I have a few TE cores here, but I've never seen them in use on any building, and I see very little information about them...even key blanks are harder to come by than any of the other keyways, it seems.

[globallockytoo]

Pardon my ignorance of Bilock but what exactly makes it bump proof besides two sets of pins similar to some other keys (like many used around Wentworth college say.... who knew an engineering school needs higher quality locks heh)? Wouldn't this just make it very unlikely to bump but still theoretically possible?

Bilock uses one set of pins (not top pins) and two sidebars. Sidebar technology (across multiple brands) has proven very bump resistant. Bilock incorporates an additional 13th pin that is triggered by an additional moving element that must be first fired to enable one side bar to drop into position. Hence why it's bump proof.

[FreyGrimrod]

Ah sidebars thank you kindly good sir!

[WOT]

Bi-Lock is just a standard cylinder that fits into a standard body.

interchangeable core is particularly useful for rental properties especially with patented, restricted keyways.

It deters unauthorized roommates, because duplicate keys are difficult to obtain AND the door hardware can't be removed without the control key, so it prevents the tenant from changing out the lock to something that they can create additional keys for.

When the authorized tenants aren't home they'll have to leave home vacant with doors unlocked(security compromise many are unwilling to do) in order for unauthorized roommate to gain access.

[Evan]

While I agree that LFIC hardware is proprietary, I can't agree that SFIC hardware is. SFICs are universal. Almost any lock manufacturer makes them now: Best, Schlage, Arrow, Yale, Sargent, Medeco, etc.

This is true... However, the lead time required for a substantial quantity order on SFIC's could be greater from companies other than Best, Arrow and the Medeco KeyMark line (and other SFIC specialty manufacturers) because the mainstream lock manufacturing companies sell SFIC's as a niche market for customers who don't want to swap door hardware as it is not their primary business...

I honestly think that SFIC hardware is a pretty decent choice for most buildings, as you have a very large amount of options. One flexibility of it is to keep a second set of cores and keys on hand to swap everything in the event of a security compromise. You could easily rekey an entire building in no time should the need arise. When the old cores are out, they can be repinned and become the on-hand set. No waiting on a locksmith in the event of an immediate issue here.

That is an option on small buildings... Imagine a campus wide corporate re-lock of a college campus secured by SFIC's because a ring of grandmaster keys was lost and bad things started happening... Large facilities having 10,000's of keyed doors just will not invest in the millions of dollars of "emergency" cores and keys all set up, cut, stamped, tagged, boxed, stored on site and the labor that went into preparing all of that until a lost set of grandmaster keys actually happens in reality and some of the cost of replacement can be deferred to a property insurance claim... At that point you are looking at obtaining emergency corporate re-lock cores from either Best or Arrow because of the quantity of the product required AND the emergency need as far as time from order to delivery...

The other nice thing is that an SFIC system can be installed just about anywhere. They can go on file cabinets, display cases, doors, padlocks, drawers, cabinets, etc. Show me a non-SFIC system where this type of hardware is so easily available.

This opinion comes from a lack of viewing all of the obscure products available from the various lock manufacturers and not knowing of the array of cabinet hardware which is available which works with standard mortise cylinders... Padlocks, drawer and cabinet locks are available from Schlage in just about any keyway you want... The only difference in SFIC versions is the ease of rekeying... Substantially more skill and tools are required to rekey non-SFIC cabinetry locks...

Though I'll admit that it's interesting that Best doesn't want to service their product in some cases, and asks to have a locksmith do it. The store uses Best SFICs on an unrestricted keyway (J), and while all the older cores are Best brand, the new ones don't appear to be. They are completely blank, and are just stamped "1" "2" etc. reflecting the key level that opens them. Also, the older padlocks are all Best brand, but the newer ones are Schlage and some no-name ones. When the building was remodeled, all the new door hardware was Yale. Prior to this, it was all Best. While they're still using SFICs, they're moving away from using Best exclusively, especially for hardware.

That has more to do with "lowest bid syndrome" and what the cheapest hardware available was at the time of the remodel... The contractor or locksmith who installed those locks may have had new old stock available to them to burn off for this job at a good price...

The library I deal with the keying for uses Best SFICs (M Keyway), and Arrow hardware. Works beautifully for us.

Cool... Is it specially manufactured for SFIC use only (tubular/bored locksets) or do you have mortise locksets which use housings which can be swapped out for any mortise cylinder available in the future...

~~ Evan

[af_newbie]

Hey guys I need a little help deciding...

1. How are best locks quality and security wise?
2. Which brand makes better deadbolts for the price, Dorma or K2


Thanks
-Ivan

Bilock and Abloy. But what do I know, I'm a newbie.

I think, the security of your building is more than just locks. Most B&E guys don't pick locks, they break things. Break and Enter.
Not Pick and Enter.

I was on security police training for civilians few years back and the cop doing the presentation told us that statistically, 95% of B&Es are done with a screwdriver or a small crowbar. We saw some interviews with the bad guys and they did not seem like the guys that would have the patience for picking locks. They always picked houses that looked "insecure" or "safe to work on".

Physical security of your door, windows and WALLS is what you should be looking after. German Shepard(s) in the backyard also help.

Having said that, I'll be upgrading all my Schlage deadlocks to Abloys

[globallockytoo]

Bi-Lock is just a standard cylinder that fits into a standard body.

interchangeable core is particularly useful for rental properties especially with patented, restricted keyways.

It deters unauthorized roommates, because duplicate keys are difficult to obtain AND the door hardware can't be removed without the control key, so it prevents the tenant from changing out the lock to something that they can create additional keys for.

When the authorized tenants aren't home they'll have to leave home vacant with doors unlocked(security compromise many are unwilling to do) in order for unauthorized roommate to gain access.

Bilock are indeed standard cylinder bodies with the option of a quick change core function. No specific hardware (LFIC) is required to use Bilock. Totally restricted, bump proof, virtually pick proof, sold in more countries than Medeco, used in just about every c*s*no in the world for protecting gaming machines.

Why can you not remove the hardware with LFIC or SFIC products? (not the cylinder)

[vov35]

What has bilock done that the b&s GM ignition lock didn't do a half century before? (as far as mechanism + security, not application)