What you need to start a uk locksmith business

[79commando]

I'd look at the whole package. I'm not sure about taxes etc out in the States but in the UK if you turn over approx £50,000 in a year by the time you've paid your overheads you're looking at a take home wage of about £16,000. Factor this into working long hours and doing all the admin yourself it's a poorly paid profession. You'll always get one or two that turn over a lot more but give it a year and some more competition and they're back to the same rate again if not out of business.

Our trade over here is in dire straights with every man and his dog trying out at locksmithing. Some full time, some part time. Even the suppliers have cottoned onto training others knowing that they will sell them stock further killing the market. I've known a few lads that in the 90s were taking home the best part of £50,000 per year after all expences and now they are out of business. We have no regulations either to protect the trade, infact in some areas the Police have vans on the road fitting security items including locks for free.

[SwePol]

I just have to say.

The price guides in this post is about right, but why spend £15000 on tools that you can shop around for and get for LESS than £1500...?

I opened up my own locksmith business in central London for £1421.74...

I got ALL the tools that I need to do the job (Non-auto) and so far I have not drilled one single lock.
(So I have basicaly a 100% non-destructive rate)

I do not use a company van, I decided to go "Green" and use the city bikes which gives me just over £1800 a year from the council.

I do not carry a large stock, normally 2 Union, 2 Yale, 2 ERA Euro Cylinders, 2 Chubb 5 lever Mortice, 2 ERA 5 lever Mortice and 2 Union 5 lever Mortice locks.

What I don't undertand is why people is always so negative when it comes to OPEN a new business.
You can always start small and expand as it comes.

As for the training.
I did not attend any training courses what so ever, however I did spend almost 1 year on the internet studying the art of lockpicking and I spent every single free night and day practice on old locks at home.

I just wish that other people was more helpsome when it comes to explain how the start-up works.

I would personally recommend NOT to get in to Auto/Safe work until you have at least 1-2 years experiance within the trade (and a bit of loose cash) and it is right that it will cost a lot to get all the tools for that, otherwise anyone could buy the tools and we wouldn't need safes...

(I hope I did not upset anyone by this post, I just want for people to be more helpfull)

Happy picking and don't break the law...

[79commando]

You must be lucky enough to be very selective on the type of jobs you are doing. The last time I looked there was certainly a greater amount of locks out there than the ones you carry. How do you carry multi-point locks etc on your City Bike or the necessary tools to do repairs after burglaries? Do you fit cylinders that the customer can hang their coats on when you've finished? Or are you just a part time locksmith doing it for beer money?

It may be different in your neck of the woods but where I work if I turned up with a sandwich box full of locks the customer would think I was working on the side and report me to the Inland Revenue. I'd also feel like I was letting the customer down if I never had the correct replacement to do the job correctly in the first visit. Every job I do in one day could have a different sized Euro cylinder or Mortice/Sash lock fitted. Even just on tools alone I'd stuggle to fit them on a City Bike.

Or I may be cynical and think as a first time poster you may be linked somehow to a training school and just doing your bit to convince the uneducated that the locksmith trade is awash with work. But hey that would never happen.

[SwePol]

How you doing Nick.

Well I get a lot more than "beer money" for my work, with an average of 10-12 jobs a day (mainly shops, needing to change locks for different reasons) I average a DAILY pay on just over £910.00 thats a lot more beer than I can drink.. (Don't know how much you drink in Scotland)

As for being able to carry everything I need, I am clever enough to talk to the customers a bit before I take of to a job and carry what I need... There would be no point of me carry a whole set of hamers and chissles etc just to change a profile cylinder would it???
Being a locksmith is not about who got the most tools in the van (i.e. who spent the most to get started), it's all about the time it would take you to let the customer in or being able to lock the door behind them. Is it not???

And as for the "drilling issue" that everyone have, to pick a 5 lever Mortice lock with anti-pick stump and levers could take more than 40-50 min in some cases. If you got a customer who call you 3am on a Saturday morning standing in the pissing rain (welcome to London) and say they lost their keys, what do you do? Keep them out in the rain for 40-50 min, pick the lock and then change it for a new OR drill the lock in 8-10 min and then change the lock for a new one anyway...??? Sometimes, is not all about the ART of the trade, it's all about making the customer happy...

As for the City Bike thing, this was a choise that I took just to be able to save up for a compnay van (Since everyone who want to start their own business is not loaded with cash.)

(And I am not part of any school or training institute, all I say is if you can't teach your self get a job in the till at Tesco...)

[Rickthepick]

£900 a day... id move to London if it didnt cost £500 a day to live there

[mhole]

£910 a day?! I smell BS.

How on earth are you getting the phone ringing to generate that volume of calls?

How do you find time in the day to grill the customer about what the job needs, select the appropriate stock and source it (from a supplier? From your existing stock?) 10 - 12 times a day, and still have time to do the work?

How are you fielding calls whilst out and about on a bike?

It all sounds a bit too good to be true to me, but more power to you if it's working for you.

[79commando]

I'm just impressed that there's that many shops that need locks changing. The shop owners up my neck of the woods must be too careful with their keys. Looks like I'll have to give my job up at the tills and move to London.

[79commando]

Good luck with saving up to buy a new van as those gold plated ones are well expensive. If you're only earning just over £900 a day it will take you ages. Failing that why don't you lease a brand new long wheel base Mercedes Vito for £285 per month. Oh wait I'm smelling it also

[SwePol]

Well first of all, I got a very loving and helpful wife that answer the phone at all time.
She sets up the customer and let me know where to go, easy as that really.

As for a car in London...
Lease= £250-£350 p/m
Parking= £685 p/m (Easy for you when you live on the country side)
C/Charge= £8.50 per day (it all adds up mate)
Tax= £1240 p/a
Mot/Service= ££££

You do the math mate, is it woth it???

As for the stock, I got a wholesaler in central London thats open from 6am to 9pm...
So it's working quite well thank you very much.

[Rickthepick]

What do you do when you get a customer that describes one thing, you turn up and its completely different?
This happens to be frequently despite my best questioning on the phone, iv lost count of how many times a 'chubb' lock needs replacing to find its a upvc door that needs a new multipoint lock.

I dont believe you can get away with carrying a few euros...
I carry 3 cases full of various sizes and even then can run out of a particular size should a whole house/shop use the same size throughout.

You are stating you carry 2 of each brand of mortice lock... what about different backsets, sash or deadlock? Oddballs like 3g110

...

100% non destructive entry/ impossible with the amount of work you are claiming.

[SwePol]

Rick, to end this somewhat pointless conversation let me put it like this....

95% of all the work I do in London is commersial and is normally opening and change of euro profile cylinders. I normally take the old lock in exchange (£3-5 exchange price), recondition the lock, re-key it and use on other jobs. Considering I charge between £95-160 depending on the job I do is not that hard to count what I earn, is it. And during all my years in London I have only changed 1 single multipoint lock... I don't know whats up with all the multipoint locks in scotland but in London is not that usual that they brake that often???

[mhole]

Well first of all, I got a very loving and helpful wife that answer the phone at all time.
She sets up the customer and let me know where to go, easy as that really.

Oh, so that £910 a day is actually between two. That's a bit different!

I'm also still intrigued to know what you're doing to get the volume of calls required to reliably do 10 - 12 jobs a day. How much of your £910 a day is eaten up on advertising?

I normally take the old lock in exchange (£3-5 exchange price), recondition the lock, re-key it and use on other jobs.

Why on earth would you offer a £3-5 exchange fee on a euro cylinder when you can get a new one for less from a trade supplier, with no labour to rekey or recondition?

[SwePol]

Mate, i don't know for how long you have been a locksmith. but if you don't know by now how to do your marketing to generate the customers you want, maybe you should try something else. maybe, streetsweeper or something...

And that was the end of that thread:*

[Rickthepick]

In all honesty i think you joined with the intention of bulling your company up a little.
When a lot of well established guys are struggling on 300 a week and some guy comes claiming 900 a day that nobody has ever heard of.... it all seems a bit suspicious

I wouldnt usually try and disprove someones claims but when there are newcomers looking for facts and advice it would be wrong to have them believe its a profitable career move when its not. The only place you will hear that nowadays is from training schools. Its tough times and its wrong to sell the dream to the vunerable, genuinely trying to get on and earn a decent living again after being made redundant or whatever...

[Mice Eat Cheese]

Afternoon All...

Apologies for jumping in mid-battle between the few previous posts. I've been reading this thread since it's inception as well as a few other threads out there and hoped to clarify one or two things, pull a few of the relevant points of advice for those seeking to set up in business together.

I am looking into Locksmithing as a career change (like a million others out there I guess) but don't wish to go in blind or acting like a cowboy so hoping to pick up some genuine info on starting a good business. I'm 27 and hope to establish this as a lifetime enterprise so good research and planning is of course essential considering the consensus regarding market saturation and that so many businesses go to the wall early on.

First off, I've got around £15-£20k savings to invest from working overseas and have another 9 months to plan before my contract is up and I have to return to the UK. It seems that this is sufficient although I will clearly need another source of income as I start to build things up. I am fortunate enough to have been away from the UK for some time and have no roots so can pick and choose my location. I have researched my potential area and there seems to be little competition although their also seems to be practically no independent locksmiths, only large companies, which I must admit is a little alarming and causes me to think that others may have tried and failed. These are my questions I'd appreciate some opinions on:

1) Point taken on the saturation of the market and that any locksmith thinking of setting up in business needs to have serious motivation, realism and patience. Taking this as a given, would people generally recommend entering this trade as a serious business over the long-term with a scope to build into something bigger? My UK job (which I hate) gives me £1600 pm and is enough to live an okay life on. I'd be happy to take a similar income from a locksmith business once established. Does this seem like a realistic net income for a hard working and established locksmith? Also, if a concerted and motivated effort was made to build up electricial and construction skills over the years, is it realistic to expect to build a bigger business and income in the long term installing alarms systems/CCTV, selling and installing safes and consulting to commercial customers on security or would you say that large established companies have too much of a presence in this field to make it a viable string to the bow of an independent locksmith?

2) I see that there's a lot of pessimism around regarding national sub-contractors. Do folks think that these will grow and grow and eventually squeeze out the independent locksmith or do they think that a well organized and enthusiastic sole trader can survive in the years to come?

3) I will take from the previous posts that half the reason a new business may fail is due to lack of business competence/experience as well as lack of marketing and realism. If these skills are in place, is it really realistic to expect to start trading immediately after a training course and with a basic knowledge of carpentry, building up that skill set over time? What other ways can people recommended to improve skills before committing to starting a business start-up?

3) Also on the subject of training, is there any updated thoughts on the best courses out there? Regardless of area. I saw that Safe and Secure offered a good package on some of the older posts, and also heard elsewhere that ICL offer good NDE training. Does this remain current? I will take it as a given that UPVC stuff is essential.

4) Is there a viable alternative from setting up raw and fresh? I've looked at franchises but it seems to me that these are a bit of a rip-off and don't give you much scope to build your business? Are there any further/differing opinions on this? Is there any sense in seeking to buy a business from somebody retiring from the trade and get the contacts, tools and r putation all in or do people think that the lack of experience of a newbie locksmith would simply grind that business down due to a drop in quality so better to start from the anew? (perhaps answered my own question there).

5) Can anybody who has recently set up give an idea of how they are doing and if they would recommend the trade to others? Bottom line for me is being able to have a job I enjoy doing and freedom to operate how I choose. Money is not important so long as I can get £1600+ net per month to pay the bills and get out the house in my spare time as well as have the chance to build something bigger up in the long term.

Cheers for any advice on the above.
Andy