Medeco 3, high-security lock?

[dlock634]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this board and not exactly a lock-picker or locksport enthusiast. However, I've tried to do some research on what locks are reliable and wanted to get some feedback from a community that knows locks best (and how to beat them).

That being said I wanted to know how secure the Medeco 3 locks are from a home-owner's point of view. I have heard some discussion that leads me to believe that they aren't impervious but I wanted to know how easy they are to beat. Also, if they aren't the most secure or hardest to beat, what locks are in your opinion?

On that note, are mechanical locks or biometric locks better from a security standpoint? Can those still be beat?

Thanks,
dlock

[Solomon]

When looking at home security, locks are actually a very small factor as they are rarely a target when it comes to MOE. Before we start talking locks, what else are you doing to protect your home and why do you feel you need high security locks?

[illusion]

Medeco locks can be picked, although the same can be said of many high security locks. I've personally picked them in the past, although I wouldn't feel confident in being able to open one sufficiently quickly as to make picking it worthwhile. They are very difficult to pick and you're looking at a very determined and resourceful thief if they are able to beat the lock by manipulating it.

More importantly they are protected against drilling, pulling and bumping which are mhore likely ways that the lock could be attacked, they also present difficulty for anybody who would try to copy an existing key to the lock and this is beneficial.

Yes they can be beaten, however they offer very high security when combined with strong door hardware and will prevent access by all but the most determined of attackers. No system is entirely infallible to a truly determined thief, however the lock is very unlikely to be the weak link in the chain.

[globallockytoo]

Medeco locks can be picked, although the same can be said of many high security locks. I've personally picked them in the past, although I wouldn't feel confident in being able to open one sufficiently quickly as to make picking it worthwhile. They are very difficult to pick and you're looking at a very determined and resourceful thief if they are able to beat the lock by manipulating it.

More importantly they are protected against drilling, pulling and bumping which are mhore likely ways that the lock could be attacked, they also present difficulty for anybody who would try to copy an existing key to the lock and this is beneficial.

Yes they can be beaten, however they offer very high security when combined with strong door hardware and will prevent access by all but the most determined of attackers. No system is entirely infallible to a truly determined thief, however the lock is very unlikely to be the weak link in the chain.

I disagree. Anyone with a plastic card can copy Medeco. They can be bumped by a 12 year old. M3 only needs a paperclip and a plastic card copy.

Dont forget the other bypasses, that are well known.

I agree with your other points though.

[Squelchtone]

Medeco locks can be picked, although the same can be said of many high security locks. I've personally picked them in the past, although I wouldn't feel confident in being able to open one sufficiently quickly as to make picking it worthwhile. They are very difficult to pick and you're looking at a very determined and resourceful thief if they are able to beat the lock by manipulating it.

More importantly they are protected against drilling, pulling and bumping which are mhore likely ways that the lock could be attacked, they also present difficulty for anybody who would try to copy an existing key to the lock and this is beneficial.

Yes they can be beaten, however they offer very high security when combined with strong door hardware and will prevent access by all but the most determined of attackers. No system is entirely infallible to a truly determined thief, however the lock is very unlikely to be the weak link in the chain.

I disagree. Anyone with a plastic card can copy Medeco. They can be bumped by a 12 year old. M3 only needs a paperclip and a plastic card copy.

Dont forget the other bypasses, that are well known.

I agree with your other points though.

If a burglar is at your house, and he has a key already, why bother making a copy of it onto a plastic credit card? Just use the key he has.. I think the OP's question is probably more along the lines of, is this not as chintzy as a Home Depot Schlage or am I just throwing $200 out the window?

I have Medeco locks on my doors, but I also have 3 inch deck screws in my door hinges, so like everyone else has already mentioned, the lock is just one link in the chain, having 1/8 inch glass next to the lock isnt going to help matters, nor are open unlocked windows, or a 1/2 gap between the door and the door frame, or weak pine door frame which can be kicked in easily.

OP (Original Poster): What Medeco does sell is key control. So that when you hand your key out to the plumber or contractor adding to your kitchen, you can reset easy that he didn't go to the hardware store on his lunch break and make a copy of the key because he heard you were going to be away for the holidays. They make a good lock but its far from perfect, and there are some researchers who have proven some very easy home made methods can defeat them in some cases, but now always. Some of the examples require access to a key for a few minutes, some require your cell phone camera, or a pair of vice grips.. I wont get into any more details, because we certainly aren't here to teach burglars their trade, they're already good enough at it as it is.

global: I think you conveniently over simplified things in your last sentence, anyone can bump one with access to 4 or 16 special bump keys which need skill and talent to make and prior knowledge of the keyway, and the slider may be bypassed on the M3 with a paperclip, but then you still have some more work to do, it's not as easy as you make it sound. As for the copying the key onto a credit card style plastic sheet, well, I know some other brands that are also susceptible to that, including your favorite brand.

What I think we can all agree on here is that the OP thinking of upgrading his lock is a great start but it is only a start. Better doors, frames, mounting hardware, window locks, motion lights, an alarm system, some cctv cameras, a dog, a shotgun, and living in a nice neighborhood all help, but not everyone is going to opt for all the things I just mentioned. Everyone's situation is their own, and the devil is in the details but at least he's thinking about a better way.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, stay safe on the roads, and in your homes.
Squelchtone

[af_newbie]

dlock,

When a burglar sees M3 lock on your door, they will look for a window to break. They will not try to pick your lock. From B&E perspective they are very secure.

If you want unpickable lock take a look at Abloy and Bilock.

Abloys deadbolts (doubles) are pain in the ass to install, but they have an option of getting "lockable thumb turn" so that you can lock it like a double or single deadbolt.

Most burglars will kick the door or break the window.
If you have double deadbolts or "lockable thumb turn" at least it will make it hard for them to exit.

Put a steel or oak door and frame, heavy hinges, 3-4" screws. Make your doors and windows clearly visible from across the street. Make sure your backyard access is secure.

[Solomon]

I disagree. Anyone with a plastic card can copy Medeco. They can be bumped by a 12 year old. M3 only needs a paperclip and a plastic card copy.

Dont forget the other bypasses, that are well known.

I agree with your other points though.

I'm surprised by this comment as generally speaking you really know your stuff...

Medeco biaxial and classic can be bumped with one of 4 code setting/bump key hybrids. They arent just simple keys, they require very specialised cuts and can only be made with a machine. Just because a 12 year old can use one doesn't mean they can get their hands on or make one... the information on cutting them is highly restricted and getting a machine without being a certified locksmith... forget about it

As for the m3, cutting the bitting onto a plastic card and bypassing the slider won't set the pins rotationally... there is another step that the cut-down youtube videos don't show, so not just anyone can get in like that. And like squalchtone said, if they have access to your key they're hardly going to copy it onto a plastic card anyway. A burglar doesn't care if you notice one of your keys is missing, they'll have cleared the place out long before you get around to changing the locks.

The other bypasses are destructive in nature and quite easy, but again information on these isn't public. There are youtube videos of the m3 being bypassed with a screwdriver, but again this is all cut down so as not to show the steps required before it can be done.

[globallockytoo]

dlock,

When a burglar sees M3 lock on your door, they will look for a window to break. They will not try to pick your lock. From B&E perspective they are very secure.

If you want unpickable lock take a look at Abloy and Bilock.

Abloys deadbolts (doubles) are pain in the donkey to install, but they have an option of getting "lockable thumb turn" so that you can lock it like a double or single deadbolt.

Most burglars will kick the door or break the window.
If you have double deadbolts or "lockable thumb turn" at least it will make it hard for them to exit.

Put a steel or oak door and frame, heavy hinges, 3-4" screws. Make your doors and windows clearly visible from across the street. Make sure your backyard access is secure.

Further to these suggestions, consider replacing windows with safety glass or window security film. 3M are the largest manufacturer. Costs about $60 a square foot installed. It will prevent a window from shattering (in most cases). Install a Strikemaster II or equivalent to strengthen the door frame casing.

Alarm systems and camera's are great if you want to stay informed as to the condition of your property, but they can not physically protect you.

[Squelchtone]

Alarm systems and camera's are great if you want to stay informed as to the condition of your property, but they can not physically protect you.

Hate to say it but you tend to get stuck on an opinion and roll with it and ignore everyone who speaks to the contrary. If I was a bad guy casing businesses or houses, and saw one with cameras, I would not want to be on camera and I would choose another place. Also, those ADT Alarm company and Brinks Alarm yard signs that are shaped like a STOP sign are proved to work, what isn't proved to work is people who leave the house without locking up and who don't arm their systems. If a system goes off when the 17 year old punk from your neighborhood decides to break your sliding glass window to run in and get some stuff, he wont want to stick around, maybe he'll get an ipod, some petty cash, but he's not grabbing your TV, safe, or computer tower unless he knows your house and knows where everything is prior to the burglary. He hears that horn, he's gonna want out, no idea if its dialing out, no idea if neighbors heard the horn, introducing doubt and fear are great ways to mess with bad guys' heads.

Sure alarms let you know about a "condition" when you get a call from your alarm monitoring company, but they also server as a deterrent, and that's important as well.

YMWV, yadda yadda, IMHO, my 2 cents,
Squelchtone

[JK_the_CJer]

Despite there being so much of this:

http://www.theamazingking.com/images/locks/m3/0.jpg

Medeco m3 is still just fine for residential use and is way overkill as far as pick resistance goes. If you care about key control and stopping credit card copying thing (which is really the only threat that might be an issue, and thats a stretch). If you lend the key the babysitter, etc... Install Biaxial instead and make sure the keyway is paracentric and problem solved, would probably be cheaper too. But like Squelch pointed out, tons of keys can copied using the credit card trick. BILOCK is probably the worst example of this because they don't even attempt to add warding their keyways in the US.

[maintenanceguy]

Medeco is a very secure lock. If you're trying to keep out burglars, it's probably overkill. Burglers don't care what lock you have, they prefer to kick in doors, pry open windows, or break glass.

[dlock634]

Thanks to everyone for all their help and insight.

I just wanted to follow this up by saying that this topic isn't for me, but for someone who isn't great with computers and is concerned for her home's security.

So in essence with M3 locks, an alarm system and secured windows the chances of anyone getting in and sticking around to steal something are pretty slim, right? I can't see how it would be possible really, but the point is to get a lock that works and worry about the other stuff afterwards.

What do you think? Are the M3s the best bet or are other options available that would provide more security and peace of mind? I know the topic is a little strange, but basically I'm looking for your opinions on what lock or type of lock would be the hardest to get past for possible intruders.

Thanks again.

[globallockytoo]

Alarm systems and camera's are great if you want to stay informed as to the condition of your property, but they can not physically protect you.

Hate to say it but you tend to get stuck on an opinion and roll with it and ignore everyone who speaks to the contrary. If I was a bad guy casing businesses or houses, and saw one with cameras, I would not want to be on camera and I would choose another place. Also, those ADT Alarm company and Brinks Alarm yard signs that are shaped like a STOP sign are proved to work, what isn't proved to work is people who leave the house without locking up and who don't arm their systems. If a system goes off when the 17 year old punk from your neighborhood decides to break your sliding glass window to run in and get some stuff, he wont want to stick around, maybe he'll get an ipod, some petty cash, but he's not grabbing your TV, safe, or computer tower unless he knows your house and knows where everything is prior to the burglary. He hears that horn, he's gonna want out, no idea if its dialing out, no idea if neighbors heard the horn, introducing doubt and fear are great ways to mess with bad guys' heads.

Sure alarms let you know about a "condition" when you get a call from your alarm monitoring company, but they also server as a deterrent, and that's important as well.

YMWV, yadda yadda, IMHO, my 2 cents,
Squelchtone

Okay. So You are completely stating your agreement with my argument. Thank you. Opinions to the contrary are indeed contrary but not necessarily correct. How can an alarm or camera, physically prevent a condition from occurring? They cannot. They can only inform.

Bilock 102 profile is just one profile of keyway currently released to customers in the USA. There are multiple profiles and keyways. Some specific customers have their own profiles different to the standard across the board keyway. Suffice to say that while in theory, your bilock duplication might work, it is still only theory. Similar to my theory for time travel is still a theory.

[af_newbie]

Thanks to everyone for all their help and insight.

I just wanted to follow this up by saying that this topic isn't for me, but for someone who isn't great with computers and is concerned for her home's security.

So in essence with M3 locks, an alarm system and secured windows the chances of anyone getting in and sticking around to steal something are pretty slim, right? I can't see how it would be possible really, but the point is to get a lock that works and worry about the other stuff afterwards.

What do you think? Are the M3s the best bet or are other options available that would provide more security and peace of mind? I know the topic is a little strange, but basically I'm looking for your opinions on what lock or type of lock would be the hardest to get past for possible intruders.

Thanks again.

M3 is as good as Abloys or Bilock. From the three, I would pick the model with the heaviest hardware.

Installation of the lock is as important as the lock itself. You need extra plates to secure your bolt and hinges. If she worries about her security, she should install an alarm, put up stickers on every window and front lawn. Monitored alarms are probably the best bet to scare all the potential would be burglars.

Burglars (like all other criminals) are predators by nature, so they go for the easiest kill.

Any resistance or obstacle and they move to the next house. Her house must look more secure than other houses on her street.

If she is targeted, then all bets are off. Expandable, commercial security gates on all windows along with a monitored alarm and cameras *might* discourage determined burglars.

[globallockytoo]

...If she worries about her security, she should install an alarm, put up stickers on every window and front lawn. Monitored alarms are probably the best bet to scare all the potential would be burglars....



...monitored alarm and cameras *might* discourage determined burglars.

Monitored alarms are a hole to pour money into. A burglar can bump open a door to an alarm monitored house, lock the door behind them, wait for 15 minutes in a room unseen from the yard. The police will attend and find the door locked. They cannot enter the premises without a warrant, so they write up an invoice for a false alarm and charge the homeowner. The insurance company refuses to pay on any claim because there was no sign of forced entry and the police wrote it up as a false alarm.

The insurance company raises your premium because you attempted to make a claim, the monitoring company has got your recurring monthly fees and the burglars get off with your posessions.

These monitored alarms are great arent they?