Bill Phillips books

[yng_pick]

Heya,

Has anyone read both Locksmithing and The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing by Bill Phillips? If so, do the books contain essentially the same info?

I own Locksmithing, however a reference guide I am using mentions the other book quite a bit, and wondering what I might be missing out on.

[WolfSpring]

It's the only book I own, and the only reson I own it is when I first got the locksmithing bug I went to barnes and noble and thats what they had. I like it it's simple, it's complete. Not a lot about lock picking, but a good reference and it's given me a reference on the total locksmthing concept.

[yng_pick]

Right,
Ive read through the second one up there a bit,
was looking around a bit on amazon and it seems
the first title "Complete book of locks and locksmithing" was originally done by C. A. Roper, then the editions continued by Phillips in the 90's..
Wonder if the other title was just his own take at it

[Squelchtone]

I have the 6th edition of Bill Phillips Complete book of locks and locksmithing and I find it terribly out of date. They literally cover things like unit locks and show photos from the 1970's, all the while the book's cover has a Medeco M3 cylinder on the cover that isn't even mentioned in the book. It might be some good solid advice for starting a locksmith shop or business, but it may also be stuck in the past.

my 2 cents
Squelchtone

[WolfSpring]

With that said Squelch tone, I still being very much so a learning noobie would not even know the stuff you mentioned or if I would need to do it, being that I have the 6th edition it would seem that it is out of date then and I am now aware that I must definately reasearch into getting a newer reference. Thank you again.

[Evan]

@yng_pick:

As others here have stated they contain roughly the same information... I own a copy of Phillip's 1999 Edition of "Locksmithing" that was given to me as a Christmas gift by a family member the year it was published... While it is a good basic reference for someone totally unfamiliar with locks and security, you will find that you quickly outgrow it and wish that he had gone just a bit further in some areas... Many of the pictures in "Locksmithing" are right out of C.A. Roper's 2nd Edition of "The Complete Book of Locks & Locksmithing" from 1983 -- many of which definitely must have come from the earlier 1976 version which had a slightly different title with 'handbook' instead of 'book' in the title... I happen to have acquired a copy of that 1983 book at a library discarded book sale a few years back which was being discarded because it never circulated in the 20 some years it was in the libraries' collection and was deemed to be an obsolete edition of and supplanted by the 6th Edition by Phillips which replaced it on the shelf...

Prior to the internet being so useful as far as OEM hardware manufacturers making many service manuals available on their websites I purchased two books from the ALOA store: The first one which is an industry bible is "Master Keying by the numbers" by Billy B. Edwards, Jr. and is one of the big three main master keying reference books out there... The second book was "The National Locksmith Guide To: Interchangeable Core Cylinders" which while useful when I purchased it has been made largely obsolete due to the availability on the internet of the OEM cylinder service manuals...


@squelchtone:

Does the 6th edition still have the 14 page chapter on Schlage Wafer locks and how to master key them that Roper's 2nd edition had in it?

Agreed that a lot of it is out-of-date by 30 years, but you have to admit that some of the line art in Roper's edition was pretty much not obtainable elsewhere at the time without being able to access OEM manuals, especially for the Corbin Emhart and Master-Ring cylinders illustrations... Also, the schematics and exploded parts views of the Original Medeco cylinders was pretty advanced info for the time well... The info on the Simplex locks is a novelty for novices, but a lot of it like the lock case functions for mortise locks and the info on unit locks are things that a newbie wouldn't really need to know about when they are starting...


I totally want to get my hands on my own copy of "Locks, Safes and Security: An International Police Reference" by Marc Weber Tobias but, at the moment, it is priced out of my ability to purchase. Based on my quick look-through of a copy owned by a friend and the amount of drool he warned me about not getting on his book, I want to obtain my own copy of it someday soon...

~~ Evan

[yng_pick]

Evan,

Locks, Safes and Security is a very nice book. I have not finished going through it yet, but it is a wealth of information.

I've seen the Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing posted as a reference for most of the mandatory categories for the PRP, and was wondering if it held much different information than the title Locksmithing. I'll probably pick up a copy and go through it one way or the other.

I recently ordered 'The Fundamentals of Master Keying' from the ALOA store, but unfortunately they are out of stock on 'Master Keying by the Numbers'. I may email them to find out if it is one they have decided to rotate out of stock permanently. The book is sold from the Billy B Edwards, Jr. site, but for quite a bit more than it is listing on Amazon. I may end up just ordering from his site. He has quite the library on Master Keying now:

http://www.lounginglizardpublishing.com/catalogue.htm