sidebar trap grooves

[Rickthepick]

Has this idea ever been used?

Multi-trap grooves for sidebar.

Not sure how many you could add without ruining the smooth turn of the plug though.

[Rickthepick]

Id imagine this combined with the medeco cam lock style sidebar and hole pins would be a .

[vov35]

way to not give me credit for mentioning the concept in another thread.

[Rickthepick]

erm where im pretty sure the idea originated from another thread, but not yours

[Evan]

It looks like a good idea on paper...

How much additional maintenance / cleaning of the cylinders would it require so that a build up of gunk and junk wouldn't render those additional sidebar grooves useless...

One would also think that without driver pins and springs above at least some of the additional side bar grooves it would only be a matter of resetting the pins to the proper angle rather than dealing with both angle and height at the same time... Easier it is when all you have to do is push the pins all the way up against the shell body while just manipulating the angles...

~~ Evan

[vov35]

It looks like a good idea on paper...

How much additional maintenance / cleaning of the cylinders would it require so that a build up of gunk and junk wouldn't render those additional sidebar grooves useless...

One would also think that without driver pins and springs above at least some of the additional side bar grooves it would only be a matter of resetting the pins to the proper angle rather than dealing with both angle and height at the same time... Easier it is when all you have to do is push the pins all the way up against the shell body while just manipulating the angles...

~~ Evan

Not sure why you assume that this would be using medeco's design. There's plenty of other sidebar locks out there.

Also I doubt that the sidebar grooves would really problematically accumulate matter... I mean, any non-key retaining sidebar lock has multiple grooves and we don't see too many issues there...

erm where im pretty sure the idea originated from another thread, but not yours

I was teasing and forgot to put the face because I was on the phone. The idea originated from tubular locks anyway, this is just some resistance to traditional impressioning tools.

[Evan]

Not sure why you assume that this would be using medeco's design. There's plenty of other sidebar locks out there.

Also I doubt that the sidebar grooves would really problematically accumulate matter... I mean, any non-key retaining sidebar lock has multiple grooves and we don't see too many issues there...

If you create empty space around the shell of the plug you will accumulate crap and gunk in all of those crevices... The "design" of a sidebar is a channel in the shell inside which it engages and blocks rotation of the plug until whatever parts the sidebar interacts with are aligned in such a way as to allow it to retract into the plug... It seems to me that the design for sidebars would make using such a lock with extra sidebar grooves a pain in the butt as the sidebar springs would make the sidebar positively engage in each additional groove during the process of rotating the cylinder...

~~ Evan

[vov35]

It seems to me that the design for sidebars would make using such a lock with extra sidebar grooves a pain in the butt as the sidebar springs would make the sidebar positively engage in each additional groove during the process of rotating the cylinder...

I don't imagine that this would be a significant problem, I mean, the cylinder would turn with a "click-click-click" across the grooves, but why would that interfere with anything...

[Evan]

I don't imagine that this would be a significant problem, I mean, the cylinder would turn with a "click-click-click" across the grooves, but why would that interfere with anything...

It would wear the sidebar and sidebar pins down (how many false sidebar grooves) times faster than the normal cylinder would wear... The extra space around the plug would also expand as the sidebar wears down the points in contact with the plug if the cylinder is milled with continuous additional grooves as suggested in the diagram of the first post...

Extra wear and tear is extra slop in the cylinder... In addition to allowing much more space for gunk to build up it would wear the additional security components installed in the cylinder much faster than the designers intended...

~~ Evan

[vov35]

Honestly I see no reason to not make the entire mechanism out of hardened stainless steel.... that would make wear take longer, at least.

no need to stick to brass, really, if it's a sidebar lock.

[Rickthepick]

my drawing was supposed to represent an mt5 style sidebar that would be independent of any pinned part of the lock used as either key control or additional security.

I guess the grooves would gunk up if not in use but a well sprung sidebar should quickly pop inbetween the groove whilst turning. Obviously this will be additional wear on springs and sidebar

[mcm757207]

A plug spinner seems like it would be useful with a lock like that.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

A plug spinner seems like it would be useful with a lock like that.

On KIL/KIK versions, I concur. You'd only need to rotate what? 45? 90 degrees (depending on the function)? A plug spinner operates 180 degrees, typically. You'd be able to zoom right past the multiple grooves.

Mortise/Rim cylinder with different frequency and spacing? That might be a different story.

[mcm757207]

Good points Confederate. Perhaps on mortise/rim cylinders the solution may be packing the keyway tightly with dental floss, like you might due with wafer locks which need to be unscrewed. Not that this is a bad idea at all... especially if the attacker doesn't know they are there.